Hello all:

  My gg GM was Mary Jane Haines; mar Trayton Pearson abt 1848, their first child was born 1849. Traytons parents emigrated to OntarioCanada from Westham, Sussex, England.

I am unable so far, to find her parentage! Her death reg. says she was from Simcoe.

Here in Ontario, there's a Simcoe county and a town of Simcoe which is in another county (Norfolk) both areas have been checked todeath..no results.

There is also a Lake Simcoe in Ontario...a big lake that I'm sure touiches several counties...one being Ontario county. Its checked with negative results.

Mary Jane Haines was born ca 1827/28 and died 27 Feb 1902 in Napanee,

Lennox-Addington county, Ontario Canada

  The hope is that one of you is looking for her....(one can always hope)

Thanks.  Feel free to email me at famfind@cogeco.ca

Don

My Haines Family are from Burlington New Jersey,to Ohio. They were of Quaker faith.  Champain Co. Ohio   Logan Co. Ohio. Related Surnames---Sharp,  Rea,

Jacobs,Ricks ,Reames

I'm descended from Jesse Haines, son of Solomon Haines, son of Carlile, son Richard Jr, son of Richard.  Jesse's daughter, Phoebe, married George Reason Rogers Sr.   George and Phoebe [Haines] Rogers were my 3x great grandparents.

I'm also a member of the Aynho Historical Group, in Aynho, England.  They have record of Richard Haines of Aynho, traveling to America and purchasing 100 acres of land in New Jersey.  Aynho is a very small village in Northamptonshire (abt 700 population)

Dear Haines cousins:

I just loaded my raw DNA onto Gedmatch. It's a free program and if you are interested in working with me, my email address is heidihaines60@gmail.com. I descend from James Haines of Salem, MA and Southampton, L.I. I am researching Dyer, Hutchinson, Marbury, Hamby, Taylors of VA/England. I loaded my GEDCOM as well. I am also on Ancestry.com and my tree is public. Since I believe James, Richard and William Haines were all brothers, maybe we can prove it by working together.

Kindest Regards,

Heidi Haines Handley

I have also had my dna done Also have Haines my kit # A792246. My email is amandaharpersix@yahoo.com

Amanda Harper-Six, I just checked on gedmatch, but we are not matching.  I'm descended from Solomon Haines/Rebecca Sharp's son Jesse Haines.  Jesse married Mary Armstrong - Jesse and Mary were my 4th ggp's.  Are you descended from this line?  (Richard Haines Sr - Richard Jr - Carlile - Jesse - Solomon - etc.)

Pam:

My Gedmatch number is A012273, my Dad's A460850, my brother's A832713, my paternal aunt (might not be finished batching) A513939.

I ran Amanda's number and didn't have any matches either.

Heidi, none of my family's tests are matching yours either.  It could just be that the DNA segments for the Haines family are on different places in the chromosomes for us.  I've had high matches with others in the NJ Richard Haines lines, and I'll bet you did too.. :)   That's one of the problems with DNA tests... it's random where the segments are located.  

My Dad and I matched Benjamin Haines/Joanna Jennings descendant, 10 cMs.

So, we will just wait and see, what other dots are connected. Thanks!

How do I get to the Haines Family tree? The link above did not work for me. Thanks.

Information taken from the "Haines Family notes" of Zimri F Haines, "Richard Haines was the progenitor of this Haines line in the United States, He came from Aynho-on-ye-Hill, County of Oxon, Northhamptonehire* England in 1682. Though he was styled, "Husbandman" in deeds of "West Jersey land grants," he was descended from an ancient family of Haynes which had made "illustrious marriage connections," but had increased so rapidly in numbers that all its members at the date of said deeds, did not occupy the high estate of its ancestors". The notes state that the Haines family had made "illustrious marriage connections". When I first read these words I like others assumed that they were referring to Richard Haines being the grandson of Gov. John Haynes. This was understandable since both of Gov. Haynes' wives were of royal descent. When that theory was disproven I dismissed the notes assuming that they were based on a false theory. But what if we got it backwards. What if the "Haines family notes" came first and the false theory that Richard was the grandson of Gov. Haynes was the result of the notes and not the cause. Then the notes would still be true and we would have to look for another explanation. Now that it has been established that John Hayne (b1614) was the son of John Haynes of Huntspill and Margaret Cockayne the notes seem to make perfect sense. They would be referring to the marriage of John Haynes to Margaret Cockayne, who was also of royal descent. And the words "ancient family" would be referring to the Heynes family of Church Stretton, who can trace their ancestry back to Brochwel Yschithrog, King of Powys. If Richard Haines were the son of John Haynes and Elizabeth Stanford, he would also be the grandson of John Haynes and Margaret Cockayne and a descendant of the Heynes family of Church Stretton. This corresponds EXACTLY with the "Haines family notes" owned by Zimri F Haines.  

FYI...I have added a family tree to Roots Web (Peter S Haines 11.0) it contains all the attachments and explanations that prove Richard's ancestry.

looks like we're double cousins with Princess Diana on the Haines/Cockayne/Denys line

I am a direct descendant of Richard Haines, born in Ahnho. I have always been interested in the location of Aynho and its character. On June 4, I will be in that region of England and have an opportunity to go there. Your advice, please, is it worth the trip? Has anyone reading this been there?

John Thomas Haines, ABSOLUTELY visit!!!!  There is an Aynho Historical Group of which I'm a member.  The Chairman is Rupert Clark and Secretary is Peter Cole.  I'm sure if either is free, they'd love to show you around.  Here are their ph #'s:

Chairman:             Rupert Clark       01869 810603
Secretary:              Peter Cole           01869 811261

(I'm a descendant of Richard Sr and Jr, then through Carlile Haines.)

My ancestor is Bethanah Haines, a son of Richard Haines Jr. His first wife was Mary, but according to Quaker records, they supposedly "divorced." Bethanah and Mary's daughter Zilphia Haines married Anthony Moore from Frederick, VA, and I descend from them. I have had contact with a descendant of Bethanah Haines and his second wife Mourning, but I can find no records for them. Has anyone run into any information on a second wife? Thanks.

Pam Bolton, thank you for your advice. I will visit Aynho on June 2nd and will be given a guided tour by Peter Cole. I will report back early June.

I am a descendant of Richard Sr, Richard Jr, Carlile, Levi, plus four others including my father.

John Thomas Haines, my 5th great grandfather was Solomon Haines, brother of your Levi Haines.  Solomon's son, Jesse, was my 4th ggf.  :)

I would LOVE to visit Aynho some day!  I'm sure Peter will provide some very interesting points on your visit!!

Pam Bolton, yes, you would love Aynho. I certainly did. I got a tour from Peter Cole, a gracious host. There is too much to tell and too many photos to post here. So, visit my webpage on the subject, for those interested.

www.tomnkarin.us/Aynho/

Lastly I must say there is a feeling of connection when physically on site that one does not get reading genealogy text or looking at photos.

Great photos, John!!!  I'm so glad Peter had time to show you around!  I would absolutely love to visit Aynho ... I can just imagine how it felt to be there..

Greetings cousins :)

I am the originator of this group, but I have been away for an extended time for more reasons than is necessary to recount here. But hopefully I am back now on a regular basis. I am heartwarmed by the activity that has continued here in may absence, and I will eventually read through it all.

I do want to comment on the most recent posts, and thank John Thomas Haines and Peter Stewart Haines for your recent posts. John, I visited your page and tears came to my eyes as I did. I am very interested in knowing about the places of my ancestors in England, and I loved your page. I wonder, perhaps, if I might obtain a larger image of the 1941 map. I cannot imagine the feelings you experienced visiting this place of our ancestors, and I thank you for the information and pictures you supplied. If you don't mine, I will be including this in our Haines Family scrapbook.

Peter, I want to tank you for the wonderful explanation of the Haines Royal connection. I, too, had believed that there had to be something other than the erroneous connection to Gov Haynes. However, I have been away from my family history studies for several years, and coming back to this wonderful new line has gotten me all excited. I cannot thank you enough for adding that here. I will definitely check out your family tree on roots web.

Pam, I am also descended through Carlyle Haines :)

Thanks to all of you for continuing this awesome family discussion in my absence.

Katrina, yes, the feelings were extraordinary. Yes, you may include this information in your scrap book. I have added a link at the bottom of my webpage for you to access a pdf file of the 1941 map. It will either download or display depending on your browser. The image is imperfect because I photographed a framed picture hanging on Peter Cole's wall and there is some glass reflection. The top of the hill is to the upper right. There were no houses beyond that in older times. Currently there are. 

For the fun of it I have place the 1941 image next to a current satellite image of Aynho at the bottom of the page.

Let me know if you need more or if you have trouble with the download.

Yes, my name is John Thomas Haines, but to confuse things, my friends and family call me Tom.

Richard%20Haines%20of%20Aynhoe.docx

Peter, thank you for posting your .doc.... once again, I find your research is impeccable!  We're so fortunate to have you in the group!!

Question for the male Haines cousins:  Have you done the Y-DNA test?  If so, are the results matching to the Kings of Powys haplogroup?

I did a ancestry DNA test. Do I need to do additional testing?

Yes!  The Y-DNA tests at FamilyTreeDNA would be the conclusive evidence to link us to the Kings of Powys.  I'll have to look at the research to see what the specific haplogroup is for that line, but if you match — that's conclusive proof.  The minimum would be the Y-DNA37 (testing 37 markers), next best would be the 64 marker, then best would be the 111 marker test (which is rather costly at $359).  If you do the Y-DNA37, you can get a discount through the DAR: https://www.familytreedna.com/dar.aspx?dar=65C96644-6816-4A6C-AB17-...

I will do the test and let you know what I find ! Thx

Thank you Peter S. Haines for your interesting and well-researched document. I look forward to hearing about your Y-DNA test. If you did it via ancestry, I'm not clear on why you need to do it again: was it not a Y-DNA test? If you have uploaded your results to the site that shares results, should it not show in the FTDNA "Kings of Powys" haplogroup? Anyway, it will be interesting. I was not sure of the spelling used here for Brochwel Scethrog - it looks so Anglo-Saxon, but now I realize it's Brochwel Ysgithrog/Ysgythrog, AKA Brochwel ap (son of) Cyngen Glodrydd; AKA Brochwel ap (son of) Elisedd (or Elise), a king of Powys in Wales, b. Abt. 502 AD. you can read more about him on the Nat. Library of Wales website.

I made a mistake: Brochwel ap (son of) Elisedd (or Elise) was a descendant of Brochwel Ysgithrog, and also a king of Powys.

Ancestry.com dumped its Y-DNA testing and results awhile back.  Even when they *did* do the Y-DNA test, the maximum marker number was only 45.  

For folks who can't afford a Y64 or Y111, doing the Y37 with the DAR discount is absolutely better than nothing.  And the test can always be upgraded to a higher marker, often at less expense when the sales come along.

**Y67 (not 64)

There are a number of different spellings. I used the one that is in the welsh records.  Also, I ordered a Y-DNA37 test. Will that work to determine male descent from the Kings of Powys?  

Cab the Y-DNA37 test be ungraded to a higher marker after the fact?

yes, you can upgrade at any time..

The 37 marker should give the info needed.  Even the DAR accepts the 37marker test as sufficient for proving descent.  

In looking over the research done so far, it appears that the following haplotypes are seen for the 7 royal tribes of Wales.... so we would want to see your haplotype as R1b1c7 (the STR47 appears more in Scottish lines):  

Gruffydd ap Cynan, King of Gwynedd, R1b1c7
2. Rhys ap Tewdwr, King of Deheubarth, R1b1c7
3. Bleddyn ap Cynfyn, King of Powys, R1b1c
4. Elystan Glodrudd, King of Ferlys, R1b1c
5. Iestyn ap Gwrgant, King of Morgannwg, R1bSTR47
6. Ynyr, King of Gwent, R1bSTR47
7. Rhodri Mawr, King of Wales, R1b1c7

The Welsh records at the National Library of Wales show Brochwel Ysgithrog/Ysgythrog. However, I'm sure the name gets translated and transcribed into English in several ways. Pam is right that the next Y-DNA test up from the 37 is 67, then the 111. I'm confused about the list of 7 royal tribes, and the haplotype shown here for Powys: R1b1c; is that one supposed to have a 7 after it or not? If not, why should we hope for the R1b1c7? Are you using Rhodri Mawr's line?

it was a typo, Paulette... If you look at the Powys name, you will see the correct haplotype:  3. Bleddyn ap Cynfyn, King of Powys, R1b1c

I thought that was self-evident....apparently not.

Peter, once you get your Y-DNA results, if you have questions, message me privately.  Thanks.

Excuse me, what was self-evident? I can see that the haplotype for Powys is listed as R1b1c, but you indicated that Peter should be looking for R1b1c7 in his test and I didn't understand that.

If we are looking for the haplotype of the Powys kingly line, then "Bleddyn ap Cynfyn, King of Powys" refers to the Powys line.  That is what is self-evident... at least to me.   And from the research I did, it appears that R1b1c is the correct haplotype for the Powys line.  Again, I made a typo by adding the "7".... I'm sorry that confused you so much.

But that's only my research.  Perhaps you might do research and find a different haplotype being presented.  

If we are going to have private messages about the DNA issue, is there someone else here who could have the Y-DNA test and share the results with all of us as that seems to me to be what a discussion group is supposed to be about? Thanks.

I wiil change the spelling to avoid confusion. And I will let you all know when I get the results of my test. Pam, thanks so much for the Powys info.

Thanks Peter, but if the English spelling is easier by all means use it. My husband is of Welsh ancestry and reads/speaks as well as teaches Welsh, so that's where I get what little I know of the Welsh language. I'm looking forward to your test results, and have been enjoying your excellent paper and the website of Haines Ancestry. I had no idea there was Welsh ancestry on my mother's side until I looked into my Quaker Haines and Moore families in VA and NC. Was helped to understand the line from Richard by a wonderful volunteer named Haines on findagrave.com.

An easier match might be Brochwel II ap Aeddan.

Interesting. I will have to look that one up. I'm not clear on what that name means.