James Donovan

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Permalink Reply by Sean K on August 31, 2011 at 7:47pm

Newington is in Surrey, so if he was living there in 1841, the fact he was not born in Surrey probably indicates he was born the other side of the River, in Middlesex, which is not far away at all. Unless you've got some compelling reason to think they were Irish, of course!

 

If James was married in Hackney and Benjamin was married in Muswell Hill, it points to the fact they may have both come from somewhere between those areas. They would have quite probably married in their wifes' home parishes. Maybe you'll find your Bartrum ancestors in Hackney?!

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Kohlman on September 2, 2011 at 2:58pm

Thanks Sean... nice of you to reply so quickly.......I saw on the 1841 Census James Donovan..(under the name of James Dunwoddie)

was not born of this parish, and didn't state that he was born in Ireland or Scotland either..so I agree with you, maybe Middlesex or about...

I am not familiar with London areas, as I am in Australia, ....Muswell Hill, is that near Undershaft, as thats where he was born..  I have found the Bartums, yes, they came from the Hackney area...

Just for interest...George Bartrum (Elizabeth's brother) married Mary Ann Monk..at St.John at Hackney..1816.

Benjamin Donovan and Jane Monk  were witnesses...

Then...two months later..............St.Peter Le Pour..28 Jul. 1816..Benjamin married Jane Monk....James Donovan and Elizabeth Bartrum were witnesses...

So..do you think we may have three paire of siblings here ?   James DONOVAN..Benjamin DONOVAN

                                                                                        George BARTRUM..Elizabeth BARTRUM.

                                                                                        Mary Ann MONK .. Ann MONK...

Benjamin's father was Dennis Donovan and mother Rachael Crouch...

I also found a RoseDonovan. (Rosetta) born 1790  Ely Place  St Andrews Holborn..She died  Mar 19 1843  Hackney..and is buried at St. Mary Newington.  .(where James is buried)...I think she is a sister, but this is not proven as yet.

I still can't connect the dots with Dennis Donovan and Rachael Crouch being the parents of James Donovan.. or where James was born..as you know...frustrating is'nt it... I have James death certificate, which states he died 22 Jul.1844..age 51..How reliable is the DOB on this...and is buried at St.Mary Newington. Surrey..

I think there is a connection to Ireland somewhere, maybe his father, but that is in the "too hard" basket for now....again...thanks for your help.. much appreciated....regards Jennifer...

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Permalink Reply by Sean K on September 4, 2011 at 11:31am

No problem, I like a good mystery, expecially when you have posted so much of the salient information that most people miss :)

 

There appears to be a street called "Undershaft" in the east side of the City of London, with a church St Andrew Undershaft. I think I took a phot of this church because it is very close to the new "Gherkin" Swiss Re Tower and is an interesting contrast. Do you mean this Undershaft? Muswell Hill is a suburb about 7 miles north.

 

Just wondering... how do you know James Donovan and James Dunwoddie are the same person?

 

On the death certificate, who was the informant? James' wife Elizabeth? Age at death can be accurate or inaccurate. If someone dies in the hospital or workhouse the staff may simply guess the age. And not everyone knew their own age with any certainty, unfortunately. Or they may be creative with the truth if they want to pretend they are younger to their lovely younger wife, or if they were born out of wedlock and want to pretend they were born after their parents' marriage... etc.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Kohlman on September 8, 2011 at 3:04pm

Thanks Sean...The informant on James's death certificate was Elizabeth, who was at his side at time of death, so the document states....William Seagrave was the register..He died at home apparently by the address...12 Union Row..New Kent Road... it also states 51 years at death...at death.

Undershaft...don't know exactly..I just have St Andrews Undershaft..will check on that and get back to you..Benjamin had a son Benjamin, born 1828 Mitcham Surrey...He married Elizabeth Fricker.

Dunwoodie ?  its on the 1851 Census...if you take a look you will see the error, as on the census it states Donovan...and some of the chikldren are there...

The reason I guessed that Benjamin and James "may" be brothers is the fact that they are interconnected in the records, ie..

George Bartrum's marriage to Mary Ann Monk had Benjamin Donovan and Jane Monk as witnesses. (they  married two months later)  with James Donovan and Elizabeth Bartrum as witnesses..

I know this is not proof, but it is coincidental...worth investigating I thought....

Its a challenge Sean, believe me..but like a good book.. you can't put it down..ha...and you'll never know who you will "dig up"  if you will pardon me.....Jennifer. (Aust)

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Kohlman on September 14, 2011 at 3:21pm

Have Just found a 2nd marriage for Benjamin Donovan...Mary Bronsden..4 Sep. 1826 St Mary Newington...same area where James is buried...

Now..I have also got another Donovan family in my tree..different line..but..coincidence or not, James Donovan..b abt 1793 , (somewhere in England)  occupation ..Painter and Glazier...other Donovan is John Donovan..b abt 1804.. Bristol Gloucestershire. occupation..House Painter...John Donovan married Sarah Wall..I think St Nicola  Bristol...He was the brother of Thomas Donovan..Brighton Photographer...(google)

Now Sean..you said you like a mystery..so how about this...

Don't want to confuse..one of us is enough....Jennifer.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Kohlman on September 20, 2011 at 1:48am

Think this may be in the "too hard basket"  sorry to do that to you..understand...will see what I can find my end...many thanks for your help...Jennifer.

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Permalink Reply by Sean K on September 21, 2011 at 7:50am

You're on your own with the Bristol Donovan's, I'm afraid. Specific questions may be 'do-able'  but general questions about Donovans (a not unpopular surname) born "somewhere in England" and found using "google" are a bit too vague for me, to say the least. I wish you good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Kohlman on September 21, 2011 at 1:36pm

My apologies Sean..I was not aware that we had to be so specific in our request for help...being a senior, and not that expreienced at this...I guess we are not too old to learn....

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Kohlman on September 27, 2012 at 3:32pm

My apologies..I see that I have already been on here.. seniors moment... happens to us all at times.. andyway..thanks for all the help I received..much appreciated........Jennifer...