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From Redenhall Parish to Caroline County, Virginia
I just joined Ancestry.com about 3 months ago and of course I'm addicted to it, spending several hours every day in my tree, jumping from branch to branch, plucking the most interesting fruit (and a few nuts) and I wanted to correspond with distant relatives and make new discoveries. Among so many fascinating tidbits.....my mother's father was Raymond Fuller of Caroline County, Virginia. His father's father was George Washington Fuller, a Yankee from New York, who I've traced back to the Mayflower Fullers. George married Annie Eliza Green, whose mother was Subburnah Hawkins Wright, great great great granddaughter of Major Francis Wright. Major Wright married Anne Washington, the sister of Major Lawrence Washington, who was the grandfather of President George Washington. Simple, right? That makes me George's 2nd cousin, 8 times removed. If that wasn't enough, my 7th great grandmother, Rachel Brabrook Fuller was aquitted of being a witch (hence why I am here to write this today). Also interesting is Grandfather Raymond's mother, Alice Broaddus Fuller, also from Caroline is descended from Edward Broaddus, the first Broaddus to come to America around 1700. He was an Anglo Saxon living in southern Wales (almost spitting distance from the Fuller stomping grounds at Redenhall Parish, England). My 4th great grand Uncle Ned Broaddus was killed by his two slaves, Cato and Patrick when they split his head open with an axe. There are so many more stories, (that's just my mother's side) but I wouldn't want to bore any of you. I would love to hear from anyone interested and find out about the fruits of your labors, common ancestors, nuts, killer slaves, witches or presidents!
David
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by GaryRea on
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Hi, cousin David! I descend from William Fuller (1423-1511) of Redenhall Parish, Norfolk, England. That's as far back as I have the line, so far. My line goes like this:
William Fuller (1423)
John Fuller (1460)
William Fuller (1483)
John Fuller (1518)
Robert Nicolas Fuller (1543)
Thomas Fuller (1573)
Robert Fuller (1618)
Benjamin Fuller (1657)
Benjamin Fuller (1687)
Noah Fuller (1712)
Chloe Fuller (1747), m. Alanson BATES
John BATES (1808)
Allen BATES (1845)
Clara Isabel BATES (1870), m. Orvin James REA
Noel Bates REA
Russell Allen REA
Me
Our line also includes some of the first settlers of America, namely the brothers Edward and Dr. Samuel Fuller, who were aboard the Mayflower. Thus, my line is the Massachusetts line and remained there until Allen Bates took his family West to Minnesota in 1875. My grandfather and father grew up in Minnesota and I was the first of the line born in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma (1952). I now live in Seattle, since 2009.
Other interesting bits about the Massachusetts Fullers: there are several famous and influential figures, including architect/inventor/visionary/author Richard Buckminster Fuller, AKA Buckminster Fuller, or "Bucky," the father of the geodesic dome, tensegrity and various other innovations.
Gary Rea -
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P.S.: Edward Fuller of the Mayflower was the father-in-law of my 8th Grand Aunt, Jane Lathrop, who married Edward's son, Samuel (1612). Thus, my relation to the Mayflower Fullers was via the Lathrop-Clark-Bates line, via Edward....however, his brother, Dr. Samuel Fuller, who was also aboard the Mayflower, was my 10th Great-Grand Uncle, so I have two lines connecting to the Mayflower, there.
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Permalink Reply by Ann Sheehan on
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Well, hello southern cousins! I'm a descendent of Robert Fuller, son of Thomas (brother to Edward and Samuel from the Mayflower).He came over on the Beavis in 1638. For years my family toook pix of the Ed and Sam names on The Rock in Plymouth. I am from Boston area and have done research through the present day. I am excited to find this forum. I lived in VA for 7 yers and tried to find southern connections...they couldn't ALL have gone north.. I am looking for more info on the Thomas from Redenhall.Anyone?.
AnnSheehan
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Hi Gary,
Great to hear from you! I had always wondered about Buckminster. That's really good news! How do I connect to him on my tree? Which branch does he come out of? I am descended from Capt. Matthew Fuller, first son of Mayflower Edward Fuller. So just like you, Dr. Sam is my 10th great grand uncle. Here's my line from William Fuller:
William Fuller (1427 - 1492)
is your 15th great grandfather
John Fuller (1460 - 1511)
Son of William
William Fuller (1483 - )
Son of John
John Fuller (1510 - 1559)
Son of William
Robert Fuller (1543 - 1614)
Son of John
Edward Fuller (1575 - 1621)
Son of Robert
Matthew Capt Fuller (1603 - 1678)
Son of Edward
John Fuller I (1634 - )
Son of Matthew Capt
John Fuller II (1641 - 1725)
Son of John
Thomas Fuller (1695 - 1766)
Son of John
John Fuller (1756 - 1835)
Son of Thomas
Chase Fuller (1797 - 1879)
Son of John
Lafayette Titus Fuller (1825 - 1910)
Son of Chase
George Washington Fuller (1851 - 1930)
Son of Lafayette Titus
Cleveland Green Fuller (1884 - 1961)
Son of George Washington
Raymond Fuller (1911 - 2008)
Son of Cleveland Green
Linda Rae Fuller (1943 - )
Daughter of Raymond
David Wayne MillerIf you go to ancestry.com and go to William Fuller you'll see 10 new hints from other trees. They weren't there the last time I looked. Some say his father was Thomas Fuller, some say Thomas Fulmer Fuller and some say Thomas Fulmer. One of them gives William 3 wives and a HUSBAND!! So many differences I don't know who is right and I'm still pretty much an amateur. I've been taking the hints from whoever makes the most sense, except when the differences are just too broad. I wish there was a definitive source. Have you found the Facebook Mayflower Descendants page? There's a bunch of documents just put there from a guy in Leiden Holland. They are marriage documents of the pilgrims and some have Fuller names on them. Worth a look. One of them is the marriage of William White to Anne Fuller on Feb. 11, 1612, but don't know if she is related to the Mayflower Fullers. I will try to find your page on ancestry.com.
Thanks!
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Looks like my line and yours diverge at Robert Nicholas Fuller's sons. I descend from Thomas and you descend from Edward.
As for cousin "Bucky's" line, he also descends from Robert's son Thomas, but he and I diverge at Thomas' sons. He descends from:
Jacob Fuller (1655-1731)
Jacob Fuller (1700 - ?)
Rev. Timothy Fuller (1739-1805)
Timothy Fuller (1778-1835)
Rev. Arthur Buckminster Fuller (1822-1862)
Richard Buckminster Fuller ( ? - ? )
Richard Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983) (the architect/inventor/author, etc)
Which one of your ancestors wound up going to Virginia? -
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George Washington Fuller was born in Holland, Erie, New York and came to Caroline County, Va. sometime after 1860 (age 9). Most likely he moved because his wife, Annie Eliza Green had deep family roots in Caroline County. Her mother was Subburnah Hawkins Wright, descended from Major Francis Wright who married into George Washington's family. Caroline County is just south of Westmoreland County and Pope's Creek where Washington's family was from.
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Interesting connection, there. Via my Bates line and several collateral lineages, I'm connected to William Howard Taft, Abraham Lincoln and the Bushes.
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Very cool.
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Permalink Reply by John Barrett Robb on
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Hello David and Gary,
Virtually all the posted genealogies on the internet (or in folders in libraries) has been copied out of books, and much of it is erroneous. Aside from the fact that, outside of New England, there are few vital records before 1850, but any number of people of the same name, out at the end of each surname line's ancestral chain, the evidence peters out and becomes problematic, and all too many genealogists resort to sheer speculation. However, through the magic of publication, and endless copying, a benediction of truth passes over this material, and it comes to be widely accepted regardless of its merit.
I am a professional genealogist, and have with a good deal of labor established a firm connection from my Fuller grandmother's line back to Roger Fuller of Hebron, who appears as a fifth generation Mayflower descendant in the silver book. Like your line, Gary, mine runs back to the Rev. Lathrop, so I have descents both from Edward of the Mayflower (who died that first terrible winter), and from Captain Mathew Fuller, his brother, who came to Plymouth much later. And I have, I believe, all the Redenhall parish records evidence, at least in transcription (I have not seen the original). But my line extends credibly only back to Robert Fuller of Redenhall, who was born about 1550, and died between 19May1613 (date of his will), and 31May1614 (the date of its proof), the putative father of Edward and Mathew, and I say "putative" because the Redenhall parish records show three Roberts, at least two of whom could conceivably have been the father, and there were other Fuller sires, and other neighboring parishes. Moreover, the parish records of Redenhall go back only to about 1550, and at that they are some of the oldest in England. Tracing non-gentry families back credibly any further is very difficult, and depends very largely on the lucky survival of certain records.
Therefore I would be obliged if you or anyone else reading this can cite any evidence, or credible secondary sources, for the ancestry of Robert (born about 1550), because I would like to see the evidence they cite for those four additional generations. I have subscribed to several of the leading scholarly genealogical journals for many years, including NEHGR, but if there have been any new discoveries regarding this line since 2004, when Robert Charles Anderson published his definitive summary of first comers to Plymouth, The Pilgrim Migration, they have eluded me. The most recent credible source Anderson was able to cite regarding the Redenhall ancestry was Francis H. Fuller, "Early New England Fullers" in NEHGR 55 (Apr1901):192, et seq., continuing with the Oct1901 issue, which replicates all the Fuller Redenhall parish records, as well as records of nearby Topcroft, and presents the evidence that other New England Fullers, like Giles and Thomas of Dedham, who came much later, were collaterals.
You say, David, that your southern Fuller line runs back to New York and the to this prominent and prolific New England line. It is usually the work of many years by skilled genealogists, assisted by luck, to establish linkages between such widely separated places. There is, however, a means of establishing whether any two descendants bearing the same surname, in this case Fuller, are of the same bloodline, and that is Y-chromosome DNA testing. For this to work for you, though, you need to find a known male cousin who bears the surname Fuller and test him, then compare his test results to those of others who have solid descents from the Fuller ancestor you suspect they have in common. If there are enough people tested of a particular bloodline, it is also possible to identify genetic markers that associate them with particular sub-branches of the family.
The premier yDNA testing company, Family Tree DNA, now has a database of around 300,000 tested males who belong to over 6,000 different surname projects. One of the larger of these projects (with 149 tested) is the Fuller project. Unfortunately, and incomprehensibly, this project now appears to be closed to all but tested members, so that DNA experts like myself are unable to analyze the results. I am the administrator of several genealogical DNA projects and I can tell you that there is potentially great benefit to genealogists from pooling both their DNA results and the evidence that they collectively have turned up for their various lines. Probably little or nothing is going to come of the Fuller DNA project, though, because few project administrators really understand how to do this. I mention this, though, because it would be a way for each of you to authenticate your lineages, at least to the point of knowing that you are on the right track - that you are or are not actually descended from the Fullers of Redenhall or their collaterals. I do have, and have analyzed, about 20 haplotype results for the Mayflower Fuller line, though (obtained before the admins closed the project), so I would be able to tell you at least whether your Fuller lines belong to this patrilineage, but without some validation of the lineages of those tested, any classification by family branches would be problematic.
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John, thank you for joining the discussion. I am sure that David and I can benefit from your professional perspective, here. I've been doing genealogy, non-professionally, for 29 years, myself, so I am aware of the pitfalls you've duly noted.
I would have to do some checking around to locate a secondary source for Robert Fuller (1550) that confirms these additional generations. I havn't encountered one, myself, admittedly.
I used to have a subscription to NEHGR, but have let it lapse, a few years ago. Thanks for the mention of Anderson's piece on the early Fullers. Is there, perhaps, a copy available online?
You're quite right about tracing non-gentry lineages, as I have discovered with my surname lineage in County Down, Northern Ireland, where, thanks to Michael Collins' burning the Hall of Records in Belfast, in 1921, has made finding anything on my ancestry in County Down during the 1700s virtually impossible. -
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Gary, the only place I would expect to find Anderson's Great Migration work online is at the NEHGS website, American Ancestors, which I believe is only available to members. I do find all the currently published volumes of the series, which covers all the immigrants through 1635. However, Anderson's book, the Pilgrim Migration: Immigrants to Plymouth Colony, 1620-1633 (2004) in which he updated many of the sketches originally published in The Great Migration Begins, v1-3 (1995), ought to be available at good libraries everywhere. You can check that availability by accessing WorldCat, and entering your ZIP code to find the nearest library to you that has it. If you don't own any of Anderson's GM series, it's worth the price of the volume just for the introduction, and the condensed bibliography of sources.
In the introduction, Anderson argues, for example, that an attempt should be made to completely reconstruct each family of interest, complete with at least estimated birth dates for each child, and an estimated marriage date, no matter how sketchy the evidence may be. Many genealogists who want to be conservative and not claim more than their evidence shows, just omit dates when they don't have them, and throw up their hands on the birth order. It's better, though, to attempt a complete family reconstruction: (1) because to come up with estimated dates you are forced to consider all the circumstantial evidence regarding the family, and to adduce what you know of the typical ages at marriage, or the typical birth interval; and (2) it is akin to a scientist's need to form an hypothesis to test, before designing his experiment (or in this case, pursuing further research). It's essential if you do this, though, to qualify dates that have been estimated with the word "say", when there is no specific evidence pointing to the date you have arrived at, or "about" when there is such evidence but it might be off by a year or two. This is just one tip from the introduction, and the rest of it, and the sketches themselves, provide both guidance and first rate examples of how to do quality genealogy. Anderson has now published about 10 books in this Great Migration series, including the most recent, titled The Winthrop Fleet, and they all contain this same invaluable front matter.
As for Ireland, as you note, thanks to that one act of political gangsterism, it is practically a genealogical black hole, though there are those who have been successful in credibly linking back to that place.
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