Help me date these photos

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lorine McGinnis Schulze on August 4, 2009 at 7:12am

George, what beautiful photos! I am always reluctant to guestimate a date based only on fashion and hairstyles. Yes, you can narrow the timeframe greatly using those clues but there is always a danger that the sitter was wearing clothes that were out of fashion by several years.

So it's important to use other clues too - such as the type of photo (carte de visite, ambrotype, daguerreotype, cabinet card, etc), the photographer name and logo, quality of photo (card backing - thick vs thin, etc), if a carte de visite did it have square or round corners, etc. If you aren't familiar with this, you might want to read the notes posted in our Discussion Forum on Dating old Photos, Types of old photos, etc

Could you add a bit of info here about these photos? I can see that the top one is almost certainly a tintype (not too much help as tintypes were in use from 1850s into 1900s, so the fashion is really the best clue here).

The bttom left - is it a cabinet card? See the notes on Cabinet Cards in the Discussion Forum if you aren't sure what one is. Bottom right - almost certainly a CDV (Carte de Visite) based on the clothing and hair but can you tell us the size of the original, the kind of corners, backing - flimsy, thick, etc

If you haven't got the originals I will hazard a guess based on clthing and hair but let's see first if there is more detail to help us.

Permalink Reply by George Geder on August 4, 2009 at 3:53pm

Hi Lorine,

I should have posted the originals for this query.
Here they are!

The one with the two girls was a tintype.
The other is a relatively firm 2-1/2 x 4-1/4 inch card.

I would say they're all pre-1900.

Permalink Reply by Lorine McGinnis Schulze on August 4, 2009 at 8:36pm

Hi George, What a beautiful example of a Carte de Visite! (pic on left) . Take a look at the photo on Lost Faces, 2nd row, first on the left with the title "Fashion 1863". Notice the similarities? The dress with its dropped shoulders, full sleeves narrowing at the wrist, natural waistline for the bodice and skirt, hair parted in the middle and pulled back but with some fullness (i.e., not slicked down to the scalp)

The Carte looks like it has rounded corners (not square that were cut to fit into an album) and that would make it post 1872 (which does not fit with the dress style) But the card itself tells the tale, and if it is rounded corners it is after 1872. Plus your remark that the card is relatively firm rather than flismy would make it a later carte. I'm a little concerned by the haphazard way the photo is attached to the backing, as that often indicates an earlier carte!

One difference is that your ancestor's ears are visible. A similiar style of dress was worn in the late 1860's and it is very possible that this young lady had her photo taken sometime after 1872 wearing a dress that was perhaps a bit out of date. I saved a copy to my computer and enlarged it which is when I noticed her fancey bow on her head. That is definitely an 1870s fashion

The last clue is the photographer name. You should try to find out when Johann was in business. That will perhaps help narrow the timeframe unless of course hw was active in photography for many years.

In summary my best guess is early to mid 1870s but I am going to research the clothing a bit more - her skirt is very distinctive and we might have more clues there. She looks rather young to me - perhaps 16-20? Do you know when this woman was born? That would also help determine the date the photo was taken.

Permalink Reply by Carol Weldon on August 8, 2009 at 12:30pm

I was able to find some links that might be helpful.

http://www.joycetice.com/photog/bender.htm has 2 examples of Bender's photos. The unevenness of the mounting and the prestamped mount are almost the same.

http://www.worthpoint.com/inventory/search?query=johann+f+bender+to... has 2 examples. The skirts are much fuller.

History of the Towandas, 1770-1886 By Clement Ferdinand Heverly at http://books.google.com/ on page 358. Page 353 Towanda Directory 1886 lists Bender on page 358.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ote/faces/stone.htm>;. has: ST-47. nn v=2 cent revenue stamp. “J Bender”. F=Johann F. Bender, Towanda Pennsylvania

http://www.eastman.org/4_educ/gehdata.html>; now at Maybe you'll have better luck searching the new database. I used it at the previous addresses and found it to be excellent. It gave names, aka names, addresses, dates of operation, even biographic notes on the photographers which helped narrow down picture dates.

Interestingly I could not find him in the census.

Carol