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My German Ancestors Part II
Hard as I tried I could not reply to Denise Golding's replies to my previous discussion. So, here goes:
Yes, I can get into the LDS site you mentioned. Johann Gohringer was born 24 August 1872. He married Wilhelmina Wadsworth in 1895 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She was married before. My greatuncle told me once that her maiden name was Smith. According to the census she was born in August of 1871. She had a son, Cortland, from that first marriage. I totally cannot find him after her death.
I will have to check into the film #s you mentioned re Maxmillian. A few other researchers said he was born in Switzerland. I have never heard that before.
re Thalhofer. We have always been told they were from Alsace-Lorraine. That region has been a part of Germany inbetween some wars, and a part of France after WWII. I believe at some time it may have been independent, but I would need to research that. IOW, I really don't know.
My cousin's husband has a habit of transposing death and birth dates. That is the center of the disputes. He put one greatgrandparent's death date as that of the other, and vice versa. A few other problems. I am a stickler for documentation. I need paper proof of everything. So, I entered their obituaries to prove my point on that one. I took the family tree I was given and began researching it as thoroughly as possible. It was almost all correct.
Funny how people are so sure that a grandma's name is this....when it is really something else. People use a middle name instead of a first name long enough....or a nickname....and folks forget that isn't the actual given name. That has become another point of contention between us.
When I checked what Michael had given me it was not the same Maria Theresa Geismeier. She was born 12 December of 1822. The stumbing point there is that I figure that Ferdinand Kodweiss must be her uncle. I just don't know how yet.
Wish I knew how to search online for any German genealogy search engines. I once was pretty good at German. Age makes one forget what one does not use.
Yes, I can get into the LDS site you mentioned. Johann Gohringer was born 24 August 1872. He married Wilhelmina Wadsworth in 1895 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She was married before. My greatuncle told me once that her maiden name was Smith. According to the census she was born in August of 1871. She had a son, Cortland, from that first marriage. I totally cannot find him after her death.
I will have to check into the film #s you mentioned re Maxmillian. A few other researchers said he was born in Switzerland. I have never heard that before.
re Thalhofer. We have always been told they were from Alsace-Lorraine. That region has been a part of Germany inbetween some wars, and a part of France after WWII. I believe at some time it may have been independent, but I would need to research that. IOW, I really don't know.
My cousin's husband has a habit of transposing death and birth dates. That is the center of the disputes. He put one greatgrandparent's death date as that of the other, and vice versa. A few other problems. I am a stickler for documentation. I need paper proof of everything. So, I entered their obituaries to prove my point on that one. I took the family tree I was given and began researching it as thoroughly as possible. It was almost all correct.
Funny how people are so sure that a grandma's name is this....when it is really something else. People use a middle name instead of a first name long enough....or a nickname....and folks forget that isn't the actual given name. That has become another point of contention between us.
When I checked what Michael had given me it was not the same Maria Theresa Geismeier. She was born 12 December of 1822. The stumbing point there is that I figure that Ferdinand Kodweiss must be her uncle. I just don't know how yet.
Wish I knew how to search online for any German genealogy search engines. I once was pretty good at German. Age makes one forget what one does not use.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Marianne Szabo on
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Permalink Reply by Donna Gates-Smeall on
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Michael who is also a German genealogist here has a good list of German search engines so you might ask him. I forget his last name but I am sure he is reading the comments and might be able to lend some help in this area.
I am researching a huge line of Wessells and Oberkruegers, Ostergaard, and too many others to list right now. But I promise to come back later tonight or tomorrow morning and post the names for everyone. We might even find we have connections.
Hope this helps a bit. -
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Permalink Reply by Gloria Weber Baikauskas on
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I went back into my records and discovered why Johann Gohringer has me a bit confused. Every census he put a different year of birth. But by the 1920 census he said he was 55...and in the 1930 census he said he was 65....so that would give 1865 as his year of birth. I took his birthdate from the death certificate his daughter filled out...gave the information. He may have been a bit young on entry to the US and kept changing the information to keep things confused. I don't know. The year of entry to the US changes a few times, too. The last one is listed as 1890. One I saw had him a 12 year old child I think. Something like that. I didn't look that far back.
I have also wondered if his true name was Johann. He used John in the US.....but he was called Jack. Actually Black Jack. He was a butcher....but he did have black, curly hair my mom told me and beautiful blue eyes. She was hoping I would have his coloring and hair............but I came in with blonde curly hair once I had hair. Joachim is James in German, IIRC. I wondered if maybe that Jack came from that. -
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I would consider that perhaps your ancestor Johann and his wife may have had other family members named Johann living with them or else, at the least, immigrating to the USA with them.
It was and still is popular to name your children after ancestor or friend who you respected and admired. -
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Permalink Reply by M. Denise Golding on
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Hi Gloria,
Actually Jack is a nickname for John. I had an Uncle Jack, and his given name was John. And the anglised version of Johann is John. As far as I know Joachim is the german version of Joseph (I have several of them in my family and in each case the transcribed name has been Joseph). There is a very good book available on names, and some of the nicknames that are used for actual given names is incredible. Some you can see where they come from, like Beth and Liz for Elizabeth, but some are so way out and removed that you'd never guess.
I agree, documentation is SO V E R Y important. When I first started, I just entered everything I was given, and then when conflicting information surfaced, I couldn't remember where I'd got the info.from! Took me six months of constant eye-straining work to recheck and document everything, but it was worth it.
It is difficult when you have such conflicting dates. Usually the nearer to the beginning of one's life, the more acurate the age is likely to be, but not if someone is deliberately trying to confuse things!
As for using second names - I'm afraid I'm guilty of that one. My parents gave me the names of Margarette Denise, but I have only ever been called Denise, and just don't even recognise that it is me that is being referred to if someone says 'Margaret" (no one seems to recognise the extra 'te' on the end which changes the pronounciation). Just as well I have my own life documented well so no-one has to get into trouble over that. This 'problem' is actually quite common. But don't forget that the second name is still a valid and legal given name. -
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The other thing with the name is that Germans tended to use at least 3 names for the men at least. My Webers that descend from Johann Martin had me frustrated until I found a record showing his sons' names as Johann Martin Maxmillian, and Johann Martin Emil. We had only known them as Max and Emil.
IOW, I am wondering if Johann was not his first name, but the one by which he was called in the German tradition.
I am still looking for Johann Gohringer in the ship records. I am wondering if he entered through Philadelphia. -
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