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Mary Carlile was an Indian Maden (see attached)
In his letter dated may 5 1866, George Haines states that Indian traits are only showing up in the male descendants of Mary Carlile. And that the female descendants show no sign of Indian blood. But genetically this is precisely what one would expect to find if Mary were indeed an Indian. I am going to be a little technical here, but please bare with me. If Mary was an Indian maiden she would pass on the Indian gene in both her XX (chromosomes) In her sons (YX) there would be no X from the father to cancel out the Indian traits, so the SONS would show clear signs of Indian blood. The daughters however would carry two (XX) chromosomes from both father(X) and mother(X) with the fathers dominate gene cancelling out the Indian traits passed on from the mother. But half their daughters would pass on the Indian gene to their children. This same pattern would continue generation after generation up until the present day with the Indian gene showing up randomly, but only among the male members of the Family. Precisely what George Haines observed.
I can attest to the truth of this because my grandfather, Charles Bozarth Haines clearly had some Indian characteristics. Even to the point that my uncles would often refer to him as "Cherokee" I never understood why until now
Views: 1923
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Proof of Indian descent.pdf, 374 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz Bugg on
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for your post. I'm very anxious to see the information in your pdf (Proof of Indian descent), because there's a good possibility that Mary Carlile is an ancestor of mine. Unfortunately I am unable to open the file. I keep getting a message that the pdf is corrupted. Any chance you can post a new link?
Thanks.
Liz
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Permalink Reply by Peter Stewart Haines on
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I got the information from the book written by John Wesley Haines called "Richard Haines and his Descendants"
If you goggle it you can read the chapter on line.
there is a whole chapter dedicated to Mary Carlile. On page 32 is a letter from one of her descendants. Very interesting.
But my theory doesn't seem to fit with my grandfathers ancestry. Perhaps it may with yours. But there are people who have contacted me who took a genetic test and it came back positive for an Indian ancestor.
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Permalink Reply by Pam Bolton on
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Females can also carry traits of Mary Carlile Haines. DNA is not only passed down through the X chromosome, but also the autosomal DNA.
I show Native American in my DNA - Mary Carlile was my 7th ggm. My DNA test indicates Native American on the admixture comparisons. My mom shows much more than I do, and she is one generation closer to Mary Carlile.
A REAL proof would be to find a female descendant of one of Mary's daughters, then a daughter, daughter's daughter, etc. and do a mtDNA test. That would be proof positive of Native American ancestry.
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Yep. After I posted I realized I would have been descended thru a male so my theory doesn't hold. I submitted a DNA test last month and am waiting for the results. Do you think the test may reveal something ?
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Peter, it's not likely that you'll see an "upfront" listing of Native American ancestry (would be GREAT if you did, though!). With Mary Carlile being such a distant ancestor, the probable way to see Native American ancestry in the DNA is with the admixture analysis.
When you get your DNA results, download the raw data, then upload to gedmatch.com... you'll be able to do an "admixture" analysis there.
Did you do your test with FamilyTreeDNA or Ancestry.com? (I sure don't encourage folks to use the 23andMe testing for genealogical purposes. The site is very cumbersome, and doesn't give much data for the money!)
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I did the test with ancestry. I will do that and see what id says. Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Paulette M. Switzer-Tatum on
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I'm not sure I understand this "admixture analysis." Please explain to me how to go about this. My mtDNA FGS and Autosomal Testing are with Family Tree DNA, but I have no American Indian ancestry that shows up although I seem to descend from Mary Carlile via Bethanah Haines. The only really unusual ancestry I have is 5% Finnish and Northern Siberian.
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I thought I read on here in a post that the American Indian blood for Mary Carlile was disproved?
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To the contrary a letter from her grandson seems to confirm the story. Also a DNA test I took came back 1.2 % American Indian. Although I can not find the connection between my ancestor Mary Haines and Mary Carlile, I am sure Mary Haines was a descendant.
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Attached is a copy of the reference
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Proof of Indian descent.pdf, 379 KB
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Many thanks for that information. I will have to look again for the information I read that indicated that Mary Carlile was not American Indian, or that the possibility was questioned.
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many people think that Mary Carlile as a Native American would not have been educated, and that since there is evidence of her being a witness at a Quaker marriage, she could not have been Native American.
That logic does *not* stand, as here is a quote from the official history of the Quaker School in Rancocas, New Jersey, which was begun in 1681:
"Friends undoubtedly by reciprocity and in harmony with their character strove to improve and civilize the Indians by sharing the benefits of the school with them. Local history records instances of educated Indians like the daughter of the local Chief of the Delaware branch of the Lenni Lenapes, who married Richard Haines about 1720, and who had previously been christened with the name of Mary Carlisle."
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