My aunt always claimed that we were related to the British royal family. Perhaps this will help me find out if it is true.

Via my great-grandmother, Clara Isabel Bates (1870-1950) (wife of Orvin James Rea) I have two or three "gateway" ancestors that are connected to several nobles and, eventually, to most of the monarchs of medieval Europe. The royals of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, France, Italy and Germany are included. At first, I thought this was really significant, but then, years later, after I'd founded a surname DNA project, I realized that, at some point in the past, we're all related to the same ancestors, so we're all literally cousins - just many, many times removed. That, plus the fact that millions of Americans are descended from the same royal bloodlines made it clear that it's really not that significant, after all. But, even so, it's still fascinating to know I'm connected to people who made history. Of course, all my ancestors made history, though, whether they were kings or farmers. I celebrate them all equally, for, without any one of them, I wouldn't be here.

I've been working on the noble families for the last several months, not necessarily because I'm related, but because the history it puts you in contact with fascinates me. As far as I can tell, If you are able to work a line across the big water, and hook into a significant peer of the realm, you will probably be able to document relations to many many significant noble and notable families across england ireland scotland and on to europe, just a GaryRea says. These guys were so interbred that at one point they began importing daughters from eastern europe, eurasia, and russia, because they couldn't get the hometown girls with more than three generations distance, which the church required to allow the marriage. truly fun stuff

Which gives you some idea of the power of the church, at the time, James. Charlemagne had to be blessed by the Pope before he could become Emperor of France. There was no separation of church and state at all in those days.

Wait until you hit upon the relationships between the English monarchy and that of the Vikings. It gets really interesting. Entangled with that are the kings of Scotland, as well. One way to control enemy nations at that time was to marry into their rulers' bloodline. Then they were more apt to become "allies" and could be used against other powers. That's how the lines of the Scottish kings and the kings of Norway became intertwined.

Hi, Pam. Well, nothing's ever really done! It's all a work in progress. My ex used to harass me about it and ask, "When are you going to finish that damned genealogy?!" I said, "Whenever I run out of ancestors to find, or when I drop dead, whichever comes first." ;)

I haven't added anything new to the Griffith/Gruffyd lineage in years. Indeed, all I have of it is two people: William Griffith (Gruffyd) and his daughter Elizabeth. William was married to Jane Stradling about 1518 and his daughter Elizabeth was married to Sir John Philps (Phylips). I haven't been able to find anything on the parents of William, yet.

Then there are the Marcher Lords in my line, which includes Cadwaladr ap Gruffydd (1096), Ieuan ap Gruffydd (1358) and Rhys ap Gruffydd (1133-1197), which appears to be unrelated to my other Gruffyds, as there wasn't yet a surname in that lineage. They used a patronymic system in Wales, at the time, so Rhys ap Gruffyd was the son of Gruffyd ap Rhys, who was the son of Rhys ap Tewdr, and so on. Ieuan ap Gruffydd was the son of Gruffydd ap Madog and Cadwaladr ap Gruffyd was a son of Gruffydd ap Cynan. Confusing, eh?

Gary

Has anyone tried to do a chart of, say, Edward I's ancestry? I've been trying, and the thing is gigantic!! Even getting down to #5 font and bunching the names fairly closely, one generation can be seveal feet long. It is, however, a GREAT way to get very familiar with the names! For instance, if someone mentions Donnchad MacMuirchada, you might even remember he was the king of Dublin in the 1100's. But really, is anyone else trying to do this WITHOUT a software program (i.e., by hand)?

Oops, I miswrote there. Dermot was an ancestor of the Bohuns. Humphrey deBohun VIII married Edward's daughter Elizabeth (in 1302).
Many people with extensive New England (and Virginia too?) colonial ancestry -- if they can get it to be extensive enough -- will find "gateway" (usually Great Migration, 1600-1640) ancestors eventually linking in England to royal family lines. But it is easy to mix up way back there who belongs to whom as an ancestor!

WATRONVILLE Family -
Additions/corrections appreciated on following, thanks, Jim:

Generation One

1. Robert de WATRONVILLE, b. c. 1230.i

Married c. 1250,ii Halvix _____, d. 1290,2 buried in St-Paul's, Verdun.2

Children:
2. i. Jean.


Generation Two

2. Jean de WATRONVILLE, d. 31 Jul 1313,2 buried in Verdun.2

Married2 Jeanne du CHATELET title: Dame of Gondrecourt, (daughter of Liebault du CHATELET) d. 1315 in Verdun.2

Children:
3. i. Robert II de.


Generation Three

3. Robert II de WATRONVILLE.

Married c. 1330 in Verdun,iii Jeanne d'ARGIES, d. 1354.

Children:
4. i. Evrard I de.


Generation Four

4. Evrard I de WATRONVILLE, also known as Eyrard, d. aft. 1370.

Marriediv Jeanne de MAISER, also known as MAIZEY.

Children:
5. i. Robert de.


Generation Five

5. Robert de WATRONVILLE title: Ecuyer, Sgr. of Watronville.

Wife also listed as Marguerite de LaTOUR, and they had a dau. Jeanne who married Henri de HOUSSE.

Married 1417,v Blanche de GELLONNET.

Children:
i. Jeanne de WATRONVILLE, d. c. 1456.5

Unsure of mother.

Notes:
(1) Married5 Henri de HOUSSE.
(2) Married5 Jean de SAULX.
(3) Married5 Jean de BOULIGNY, also known as BOULGNY, (son of Thiébaut de BOULIGNY and Catherine de FAILLY).

Sources:
i de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:993.
ii de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:994.
iii de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:995.
iv de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:996.
v de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:997.

To James P. LaLone: (I really have very little idea of how to use this forum -- it was hard to even find it again once I signed in!) Your latest posting is very interesting. So, Rotrude is the dau of C and either Hildegarde or Sigrada? Is either one more of a possiblity than the other? Wherever did you find this incredible list of his official and unofficial paramours?

Thomas, sorry, when I did the printout on the descent I failed to check the button which indicates which wife produced which child.

I have attached a rtf. file in the discussion forum under Charlemagne. It is what I have on the first three generations, which is by no means complete.

The MAINE family connections are controversial so that is one reason I posted that particular lineage. I have about 6 lines which go back to Charlemagne.

I basically used several gedcoms which I combined and copied from WorldConnect and am gradually going through it and making additions & corrections as well as adding notes (sorry for any which I failed to give the source).

It seems every time I get something entered "correct", someone else says it is not! This is needless to say very time consuming & why I hope people will work together getting the CORRECT info posted! Anyway, additions & corrections always appreciated (with sources & better yet documentation).
Jim

TYREL Ancestry
Again additions/corrections appreciated. I have not listed all the ancestry for all the line in the ahnentafel. Have to cut it off somewhere! Thanks, Jim.


1. Jean de TYREL-de-POIX, b. c. 1345, d. 1382.
He married Marguerite de CHÂTILLON-DAMPIERRE.

Parents

2. Jean de TYREL-de-POIX, b. c. 1315, d. 1361. He married Agnes de SECHELLES title: Dame de Cuvilly.
3. Agnes de SECHELLES title: Dame de Cuvilly, b. c. 1325.

Grand Parents

4. Jean de TYREL-de-POIX, b. c. 1290, d. aft. Aug 1346 in Crécy. (1) Married 1306, Jeanne de MOREUIL, b. c. 1295, d. bef. 1312. (2) Married 1312, Denise de LONGUEVAL.
5. Jeanne de MOREUIL, b. c. 1295, d. bef. 1312.

6. Mathieu de SECHELLES, b. c. 1324, d. 2 Apr 1413. He married unknown.
7. unknown.

Great Grand Parents

8. Guillaume de TYREL-de-POIX. He married Marguerite d'AZINCOURT.
9. Marguerite d'AZINCOURT.

10. Bernard V de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married Yolande de SOISSONS title: Vcte., dame de Coeuvres.
11. Yolande de SOISSONS title: Vcte., dame de Coeuvres.

12. Gilles de SOYÉCOURT title: chevalier, sire de Sechelles, b. c. 1300, d. 3 Sep 1346 in Crecy. He married unknown.
13. unknown.

Great Great Grand Parents

16. Guillaume I de TYREL, b. c. 1230. He married Marguerite de RAMBURES.
17. Marguerite de RAMBURES.

20. Bernard IV de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married Agnes _____.
21. Agnes _____.

22. Raoul de SOISSONS title: Sgr. of Coeuvres, b. c. 1210, d. aft. Sep 1272. (1) Married 1241, divorced 1243, Alix of CHAMPAGNE title: Cte. of Jaffa, also known as JERUSALEM, b. 1186/95/6, d. 1246/7. (2) Married c. 1255, Comtesse de HANGEST title: Cte.
23. Comtesse de HANGEST title: Cte.

24. Huet de SOYÉCOURT title: chevalier. He married unknown.
25. unknown.

3rd Great Grand Parents

32. Hugues III de TYREL title: chevalier sire et prince de Poix, b. c. 1200, d. Jun 1272 in Namps. (1) He married Beatrix de LANNOY, d. Oct 1233/7. (2) Married 1248, Guillemette de SARCUS. (3) Married 1255, Alix de HANGEST.
33. Beatrix de LANNOY, d. Oct 1233/7.

40. Bernard III de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married Marie _____.
41. Marie _____.

44. Raoul I de NESLE title: Comte de Soissons, b. c. 1150, d. 4 Jan/Feb 1235/7. (1) He married Adele de DREUX, also known as Alice, b. c. 1145/6, d. c. 1205/10. (2) Married 1205, Yolande (de JOINVILLE?), d. 1144/1222. (3) Married 1224, Ade d' AVESNES title: dame de Hans, b. c. 1168, d. 4 Dec 1239.
45. Yolande (de JOINVILLE?), d. 1144/1222.

46. Jean de HANGEST, b. c. 1165. He married Gode des PRÉAUX title: Dame of Avenescourt.
47. Gode des PRÉAUX title: Dame of Avenescourt, b. c. 1180.

4th Great Grand Parents

64. Gauthier V de TYREL title: sire de Poix, b. c. 1172, d. c. 1227. Married c. 1194, Jacqueline de FOLLEVILLE, also known as Jeanne.
65. Jacqueline de FOLLEVILLE, also known as Jeanne, d. 1204.

80. Colin de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married unknown.
81. unknown.

88. Raoul II de NESLE title: Chatelain de Bruges ( Burggraaf of Brugge), also known as Radulf III, b. 1095, d. aft. 1153/60. He married Gertrude de HAUTE-LORRAINE.
89. Gertrude de HAUTE-LORRAINE, b. c. 1118/25. (1) She married Raoul II de NESLE title: Chatelain de Bruges ( Burggraaf of Brugge), also known as Radulf III, b. 1095, d. aft. 1153/60. (2) She married Evrard III, Chatelain de TOURNAI.

92. Florent I de HANGEST title: Sgr., b. c. 1140, d. 1191 in Acre. He married unknown.
93. unknown.

5th Great Grand Parents

128. Hugues II de TYREL title: ecuyer, chevalier puis sire de Poix, b. 1140 in England, d. 1199 in England. Married c. 1161, Isabelle de WIGNACOURT.
129. Isabelle de WIGNACOURT, d. c. 1173.

160. Nicolas de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married unknown.
161. unknown.

176. Raoul, Sgr. of NESLE title: Sgr. of Nesle, Falvy, also known as Radulf, d. aft. 1125. Married c. 1115, Rainurde _____, also known as SOISSONS / EU ?.
177. Rainurde _____, also known as SOISSONS / EU ?.

178. Simon I von LOTHRINGEN title: Hzg./Dk., also known as of LORRAINE, b. 1072/bef. 1088, d. 1138/9. (1) Married c. 1112, Adelheid von LÖWEN, b. c. 1090, d. 1158. (2) He married Adelaide of LORRAINE, b. c. 1084, d. c. 1158 in Tart.
179. Adelheid von LÖWEN, b. c. 1090, d. 1158.

6th Great Grand Parents

256. Hugues I de TYREL, b. c.1116/45, d. 1158. He married Ade d'AUMÂLE.
257. Ade d'AUMÂLE, b. c. 1118.

320. Bernard II de MOREUIL. He married unknown.
321. unknown.

352. Ives I de NESLE. He married Ramentrude d'EU, also known as de SOISSONS.
353. Ramentrude d'EU, also known as de SOISSONS, b. c. 1060.

356. Dietrich II of ALSACE title: Duke, also known as Thierry II von Ober-Lothringen/LORRAINE, b. 1044/55/60 in Lorraine, France, d. 23 Jan 1114/15, buried in Chetenois. (1) Married 1075, Hedwig von FORMBACH, also known as Edith, b. 1050/8, d. 1078/88/90/5 - 1100. (2) Married c. 1095/1100, Gertrude of FLANDERS title: heiress, also known as von Flandern, b. c. 1070, d. 1115/26.
357. Hedwig von FORMBACH, also known as Edith, b. 1050/8, d. 1078/88/90/5 - 1100. (1) She married Gebhard von SUPPLINBURG title: Count/Graf von Harzgau, b. c. 1058, d. 9 May 1075 in Slain. (2) Married 1075, Dietrich II of ALSACE title: Duke, also known as Thierry II von Ober-Lothringen/LORRAINE, b. 1044/55/60 in Lorraine, France, d. 23 Jan 1114/15, buried in Chetenois.

358. Henry III of LOUVAIN, b. c. 1050/65 in Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France, d. 5 Feb 1095. He married Gertrude of FLANDERS title: heiress, also known as von Flandern.
359. Gertrude of FLANDERS title: heiress, also known as von Flandern, b. c. 1070, d. 1115/26. (1) She married Henry III of LOUVAIN, b. c. 1050/65 in Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France, d. 5 Feb 1095. (2) Married c. 1095/1100, Dietrich II of ALSACE title: Duke, also known as Thierry II von Ober-Lothringen/LORRAINE, b. 1044/55/60 in Lorraine, France, d. 23 Jan 1114/15, buried in Chetenois.

7th Great Grand Parents

512. Gauthier III de TYREL title: sire de Poix, Namps au Mont, etc, b. c. 1095, d. 1145. Married c. 1115, Isabelle d'HEILLY.
513. Isabelle d'HEILLY, d. 1120.

514. Etienne II d'AUMÂLE title: Earl of Albermarle, d. 1127. He married Hawise de MORTIMER, also known as Hedwige.
515. Hawise de MORTIMER, also known as Hedwige, b. 1090.

640. Bernard I de MOREUIL. He married unknown.
641. unknown.

704. Robert I de PERONNE. He married Adelise _____.
705. Adelise _____.

706. Guillaume Busac d'EU title: Count, also known as Guillaume, b. c. 1000/23, d. 1064/aft. 1076. Married 1058, Aelis of SOISSONS title: Cte., also known as Adelaide/Adele.
707. Aelis of SOISSONS title: Cte., also known as Adelaide/Adele, b. c. 1020, d. 18 Sep 1066.

712. Gerhard I of UPPER-LORRAINE title: Count Vaudemont IV, Alsace, Metz, nickname le Grand, b. c. 1010/20/30/48, d. c. 14 Apr 1070 in Remiremont, Vosges, France. He married Hedwig de NAMUR.
713. Hedwig de NAMUR, b. c. 1010/30, d. 1074/5 - 1080.

714. Frederick von FORMBACH title: Count, b. c. 1020, d. 1059/60 in Slain, buried in Formbach. (1) He married Gertrude von HALDENSLEBEN title: heiress, b. c. 1020, d. 21 Feb 1115/6. (2) Married bef. Nov 1042, Ulfhild Olavsdottir of NORWAY, also known as Wulfhilde / Ulfhilde / Gisela / Ulvhild, also known as ? of DANEMARK, b. c. 1023, d. c. 24 May 1070/1.
715. Gertrude von HALDENSLEBEN title: heiress, b. c. 1020, d. 21 Feb 1115/6. (1) She married Frederick von FORMBACH title: Count, b. c. 1020, d. 1059/60 in Slain, buried in Formbach. (2) Married aft. Nov 1042, Ordulf von SAXONY title: Duke, also known as Otto, b. c. 1020, d. 28 Mar 1071/2.

716. Henry II de LOUVAIN title: Ct. of Louvian, Brussels, also known as Henri/Heinrich I, b. c. 1020/1/5 in Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France, d. 1029/38/77/9 in Beussels, Belgium, buried in Cloister of St. Gertrud, Nivelles, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France. (1) He married Adelaide von BETUWE, also known as of BETHUNE, b. c. 1031 in Orlamünde, Thüringen, Germany, d. aft. 1086. (2) He married Maud of LORRAINE.
717. Adelaide von BETUWE, also known as of BETHUNE, b. c. 1031 in Orlamünde, Thüringen, Germany, d. aft. 1086.

718. Robert I of FRISIA title: Count of Flanders, Holland, also known as of FLANDERS, nickname "le Frison", b. c. 1032/3/5 in East Flanders, Belgium, d. 2/3/13 Oct 1093 in Kassel, Hessen, Germany. Married 1063, Gertrude von SAXONY.
719. Gertrude von SAXONY, b. c. 1030/5, d. 4 Aug 1113. (1) Married c. 1050, Florenz I of HOLLAND title: Count, also known as Florent I de GAND, b. c. 1017/30 in Vlaardingen, Zuid Holland, Netherlands, d. 28 Jun 1061 in Nederhemert, Gelderland, Netherlands. (2) Married 1063, Robert I of FRISIA title: Count of Flanders, Holland, also known as of FLANDERS, nickname "le Frison", b. c. 1032/3/5 in East Flanders, Belgium, d. 2/3/13 Oct 1093 in Kassel, Hessen, Germany.

Forgot to mention I have also posted some stuff on the Medieval England forum of this website. Jim.

[This may be posting here a second time -- something seemed wrong when I first attempted it (but maybe not)] Thanks! On a related topic -- I have, off and on, over the years, been trying to complete a chart -- believe it or not -- of the ancestors of Edw I. To say this is a quite extensive project grossly understates its scale, but in the process it is a nice way to get to "know" the ancestors, if only in a very sketchy way. In the map-sized context they are displayed, their positioning in the centuries is thus more easily remembered, as well as who their contemporaries were. My question is: Do you know of anyone who has already done this? I would be interested only in the displayable data in a small font (say, size 4-6) and closely enough bunched together so that the chart would be only eight feet in height or so. This wouldn;t of course include siblings except in the more recent generations, but definitely would have pertinent b, m, & d dates and places and, where possible, very abreviated important life events and titles. Does this monster chart sound like anything you have ever read or heard of? Or maybe software that would limit the spacing that so often limits close bunching of data?

Thomas, you posted the message on the Discussion forum (under Charlemagne). Jim

Hello Cousins! I too am related to English royalty through John George Hacket born 1820 who is mentioned in the Tudor Roll of the Blood Royal. I have included bits and pieces of the royal family into my tree but as you all know, it is huge! Isn't it funny how our parents and children are also our cousins!

Jim, I meant to comment more on your fascinating list of Charlemagne's parampurs -- legal and otherwise. It does point up how mores change over the centuries. Charlemagne was head of the new Holy Roman Empire, which had monogamy as one of its linchpins, yet look at the list! Apparently back then monogamy meant only one legal wife at a time (no official harems allowed) but linkups with others were apparently OK. Otherwise, how would this many names have survived to be known to history? Especially interesting in light of the current Tiger Woods brouhaha! This is another value of genealogy -- to explain societal mores in depth through the viewing of individuals' lives.
Alexandra: You can also be your "own cousin" too, if your parents were cousins.Often "Removed" too! By the way, are you related to anyone in the Salt Lake City area? (knew a Hooley who moved back there)

Hi Thomas! I never thought of that! Removed, that's funny!

I am not related to any Hooley's in the Salt Lake City area that I am aware of. All of my Hooley's are in England or South Africa.

Here are a number of websites for researching - some more helpful then others. If they quote sources then I would put more trust in them.

http://www.friesian.com/flanders.htm

http://www8.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/html/chl-enter.html

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~conqueror/genealo...

http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~perry/fun/genealogy/
Scroll down to the medieval listing

http://www3.dcs.hull.ac.uk/public/genealogy/

http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Genealogies/Genealogie_Capetie...

http://www.francebalade.com/vendome/genhenri4.htm

http://a.decarne.free.fr/gencar/gencar.htm

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~medieval/arch.htm

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/updates/update.shtml

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pmcbride/

http://ftp.cac.psu.edu/~saw/royal/royalgen.html

http://www.scotlandroyalty.org/archives/r45.html

http://book-smith.tripod.com/bktitle.html

http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/bourbon/france/frenlegt.htm

http://www.thepeerage.com/master_index.htm

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gumby/genweb/Winch/Winch.html

http://www.genealogics.org/index.php

http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/henry.htm

http://www.cyndislist.com/royalty.htm

http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/royal00.htm

http://www.regalis.com/

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~autwgw/sgi/index.htm

http://habitant.org/tools/esnotes.htm

http://archives.gov.by/eng/index.php?id=854614

http://nickmgombash.blogspot.com/2009/02/toth-family-their-nobility...

http://www.everything.com/FTMResearching-German-Nobility/
http://fmg.ac/

http://www.angelfire.com/in/heinbruins/

http://www.gotowebguide.com/Society-Genealogy-Royalty/01-2-4830-397...

Robert I de SAARBRÜCKEN b. _____ d. 1464 / 1465 m. 1417 Jeanne de ROUCY b. c. 1046 d. 4 Sep 1459
28 Jeanne of SAARBRÜCKEN m. bef. 1463 Christophe of BARBANÇON-CANNY d. 13 Feb 1496 / 7 Feb
29 Francois of BARBANÇON-FRETTE b. _____ d. aft. 7 Feb 1501 m. Francoise de VILLERS
30 Marguerite de BARBANÇON b. c.1500 m. 15 Jul 1519 Robert de JOYEUSE b. c. 1496 d. aft. 1556
31 Francois de JOYEUSE m. Nicole-Francoise de BEAUVAIS
32 Jean de JOYEUSE-CHAMPIGNEULLE m. Nicole des ANCHERINS
33 Louise de JOYEUSE m. Charles de LONGUEVAL

I am delighted to become a new member of the 'Royalty Blue Blood Families'
group. Members can see all my family photos which I'm sure they'll find most
interesting.

Princess Maria Sviatopolk-Mirski
London/UK

It appears that my photo has been removed from this group,Who removed it? bev watson

Can anyone supply the ancestry of the CHATELET line listed below?  I have a copy of HISTOIRE GENEALOGIQUE DE LA MAISON DU CHATELET, BRANCHE PUINEE DE LA MAISON DE LORRAINE, by Augustin Calmet (google book). However, I could not find the family (but my ability to read French is poor at best). Thanks.

Generation One

1.    Jean de WATRONVILLE, (son of Robert de WATRONVILLE and Halvix _____) d. 31 Jul 1313,i buried in Verdun.1

    Married1 Jeanne du CHATELET title: Dame of Gondrecourt, (daughter of Liebault du CHATELET) d. 1315 in Verdun.1

                Children:
          2.    i.    Robert II de.


Generation Two

2.    Robert II de WATRONVILLE.

    Married c. 1330 in Verdun,ii Jeanne d'ARGIES, d. 1354.

                Children:
               i.    Evrard I de WATRONVILLE, also known as Eyrard, VAUTRONUILLE, d. aft. 1370.

                Marriediii Jeanne de MAISER, also known as MAIZEY.

SOURCES:
i  de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse  (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:994.
ii  de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse  (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:995.
iii  de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse  (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:996.

Interesting site:

http://plabelle.net/

Another interesting site:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25236-Haplogroups-of-Eu...

I am stumped and wonder if someone can help me. I am trying to find out if my Roda Green is the daughter of Filmer Green or Philmore Green.......are they the same person. Flimer Green is the son of William Green and Amey Clay. This line of Greens takes you back to Martha Filmer, decendent of King Louis V11 and more.    So, Here is my line and where I am stuck. Rhoda Anne Shelton born 1794 Tn, parents Rhoda Green and Stephen W Shelton. Roda Anne Shelton married David Harmon Coffman Jr about 1815 posably in Giles Co., Tn. Thier son Jesse J Coffman born 1819 iin Tn or Al is my firect line. Rhoda Anne Shelton Green died 1853 in Limestone Co., Al. David Harmon Coffman Jr died Aug 10, 1869 Lauderdale Co., Al.                                                                           Is there any will or document listing either Filmer Green OR Philmore Green as the father of Roda Green. While I have seen both Filmer and Philmore listed as Roda Green s father, in both case s the birth date year is listed as 1743. I think I mentioned Rhoda Green was born 1794 in N.C. by most accounts.                  If any one could plese help me..........I just want the truth where ever that leads me. Thanl you in advance. MISS ROBIN

CORRECTION..........Rhoda Anne Shelton was born 1794 in Tn. Rhoda Anne Shelton COFFMAN.......not Green died 1853 Limestone Co., AL.

How reliable is the book  The Royal Decents Of 600 Immigrants.....I ask because suposely I have a direct linage to King EDWARD 1 of England. I say suposeably because a lot of verifying needs to be done I dont mind if  I am or am not a decent of royalty....it would be fun but I only want to claim them IF they are my true ancestors .

Ms. Coffman,

The problem with this royalty and nobility genealogy I am removing as many ancestors as adding!.  Nothing is perfect but I believe Boyd's book is generally acceptable. I always like to double check stuff with Leo VanPas' site Genealogics.com, it appears his one of the more accurate sites (but not perfect either). Some of your sources/references should appear in the Complete Peerage.  Also check Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, (8th ed,) it is considered quite good. Good luck. Jim

James, thank you I will check those out. What I want to know is where DO they find all the records to link a 1950 s born person all the way back to King Edward 1 of England. I am over joyed there are enough records to link me to my Rev War Ancestor.....obtaining is another story but they seem to exsist, lol.

Robin,

Here are a few books on the subject -

GENERAL “HOW TO” OR BACKGROUND INFO:

Bird, Jack. "Some Sources for French Genealogy and Heraldry." The Genealogists' Magazine 13:8 (December 1960): 237-241.

Bouchard, Constance B. "Consanguinity and Noble Marriages in the Tenth and Eleventh Centuries." Speculum 56:2 (1981): 268-287.

Interesting discussion of consanguinity among the nobility and the impact of the Catholic Church's changing rules.　 Consanguinity often becomes a crucial issue when trying to untangle possible relationships among Medieval people.

Chambers, Paul. Medieval genealogy: how to find your medieval ancestors .

Durye, Pierre (trans. By Wilson Ober Clough). Genealogy: an introduction to continental concepts. New Orleans: Polyanthos, 1977.

Lart, Charles E. "French Noblesse." The Genealogists' Magazine 7:5 (March 1936): 229-242.

Rye, Walter. Records & record searching: a guide to the genealogist & topographer

Sheppard, Jr., Walter Lee. Feudal genealogy .

Only about 10 or so people out of 45 have posted anything. It is time to have a roll call - who is researching whom?

I will start, although not in any way near the complete list. Besides those families I have already posted in this group I am interested in:

ABBECOURT

ACHALM

ADHEMAR

AIGLE

AIGREMONT

ALSACE

ANCHERIN(S)

ANGELOS / ANGELUS

ANGOULEME

ANTOING

APREMONT

AQUITAINE

ARAGON

ARDENNE(S)

BARBANCON

BAUDEMONT

BEAUMONT

BURGUNDY

CAPET

CAYLUS

CHATILLON

CHALONS

CHAWORTH

CLERMONT

COUCY

DAMMARTIN

DAMPIERRE

DEOLS

DREUX

ENGHIEN / ENGHEIN

GANT

GASCONY

HAINAU(L)T

JOYEUSE

etc. and so on...

My 4 greats grandfather Edwin Boyd Jackson (1782-1855) was accepted as a qualifying ancestor for the Society of the War of 1812 on May 24, 2011. His son Lilburn Jackson, a Tennessee magistrate, fathered a Black son Alex Jackson (1848-1876). Edwins wife Jane Penick Jackson (1784-1840) was a granddaughter of Mary Mallory Penick (1729-1803), a great granddaughter of a Yorkshire immigrant, Roger Mallory (1635-1707). Roger was the son of the Rev. Thomas Mallory Jr, (1605-1671) the son of the Very Rev. Thomas Mallory Sr. (1566-1644) Dean of Chester. Dean Mallory was the son of a Knight Sir William Mallory (1530-1603), Lord of Studley. Through the Fitzhughes and Marmion families, Sir William Mallory was descended from King John (1167-1216)

According to the experts the crem de la crem references of royal genealogy are the 2 books by Weis : The MAGNA CHARTA SURETEES and ANCESTRAL ROOTS OF CERTAIN AMERICAN COLONISTS               and

 

 THE COMPLETE PEERAGE--- These sources give meticulous and detailed reference to primary documents.To link yourself with a royal ancestor, start with your own birth certificate, Then get documents that support EACH generation, one by one,past you until you get to your gateway ancestor. Most colonial families that were of prominence, would have a multitude of genealogies already written about them that would carry their lines back to a gateway ancestor. Then prove the parentage of your gateway ancestor, If there is a royal ancestor, you will no doubt reach gentry before you reach nobility,  The gentry were often the YOUNGER sons of the nobility. Only the OLDEST sons inherit the title of SIR. Before you reach nobility, you will probably go through several generations of gentry.. Once you reach an oldest son of a noble, you will go through several generations of nobility and THEN you MAY reach that generation who was an illigitimate son of a king. Kings frequently gave their illigitimate sons Earldoms.

My gateway ancestor Roger Mallory was mentioned in TWO wills in England ; those of his father and his uncle, both of whom were Church of England Clergymen. The above mentioned sources carried the lineage back to royalty.

Baronial Order of Magna Charta (BOMC)

 

http://www.magnacharta.com/

Descendants of the Illegitimate Sons and Daughters of the Kings of Britain

 

http://royalbastards.org/

Medieval jargon

http://blog.progenealogists.com/2011/08/common-vocab-in-medieval-wills/?affiliate=soft1dir&merchant=cottrill&url=http://blog.progenealogists.com/2011/08/common-vocab-in-medieval-wills/

 

Good reading and good eats.

Some sites of possible interest:

ESSEX

http://www.essexvoicespast.com/

Norman Kings

http://www.medievalists.net/2012/04/26/the-role-of-the-norman-kings...

Llywelyn ab Iorwerth

http://www.medievalists.net/2012/04/26/llywelyn-ab-iorwerth-the-mak...

I'M NOT SURE IF MY LINE QUALIFIES FOR MEMBERSHIP HERE.  It is through my Grandma Boyd back to Sir William Boyd, (10^th Lord Boyd 1^st Earl of Kilmarnock 1638-1691) and then back to Walter FitzAlan (lst High Steward of Scotland 1105-1177) and even

farther back to Brittany.  The Boyds had many castles in Scotland including the "Dean Castle" that was still in Boyd possession through the mid 1750's and is now open to the public. The Boyd Family came into possession of the grounds of Dean Castle in 1316, when Sir Robert Boyd (Earl of Kilmarnock) was rewarded the lands of Kilmarnock and West Kilbride by King Robert (the Bruce) I for his services at the Battle of Bannockburn. It has strong historical connections with many people and events famous in Scottish history – BUT IS THIS LINE REALLY ROYALTY?

FYI -

37th Annual Medieval and Renaissance Forum
Keene State College
Keene, NH, USA
Friday and Saturday April 15-16, 2016

Call for Papers and Sessions
"The Local and the Global in the Middle Ages"
Keynote speaker: Suzanne Conklin Akbari, University of Toronto

We are delighted to announce that the 37th Medieval and Renaissance Forum will take place on April 15 and 16, 2016 at Keene State College in Keene, New Hampshire.  This year's keynote speaker is Suzanne Conklin Akbari, Professor of English and Medieval Studies at the University of Toronto.  Her research focuses on intellectual history and philosophy, ranging from neo-Platonism and science in the twelfth century to national identity and religious conflict in the fifteenth. Akbari's books include Seeing Through the Veil (on optics and allegory), her important and influential study on images of Islam and Muslims in medieval Europe (Idols in the East), and a book on Marco Polo.  She is currently at work on Small Change: Metaphor and Metamorphosis in Chaucer and Christine de Pizan.

We welcome abstracts (one page or less) or panel proposals on all medieval and Renaissance topics from all fields and on the reception of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.

Students, faculty, and independent scholars are welcome. Please indicate your status (undergraduate, graduate, or faculty), affiliation (if relevant), and full contact information (address and e-mail address), on your proposal.

Undergraduate sessions are welcome but require faculty sponsorship.

Please submit abstracts, audio/visual needs, and full contact information to Dr. Meriem Pagès, Director. For more information please e-mail mpages@keene.edu.

Abstract deadline: Friday January 15, 2016

Presenters and early registration: March 15, 2016