Matheson Family (Corraig, Sutherlandshire)

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Campbell on January 28, 2010 at 10:42am

Welcome to the forum, Sam! In looking at Helen's ancestors (the post just before your own), I saw that she is also a descendant of Alexander of Coirag.

I would love to know who the Jean Matheson was that was Alexander's second wife. Do you have their marriage record? I transcribed it in Edinburgh when I was there, as part of my personal research. I can give it to you if you haven't already got it. I also have your ancestor John Pagee's baptism which I transcribed at the same time, and those of several siblings. I copied most Matheson material I was able to find (but not all - time restrictions!) as I wasn't sure how we all inter-related.

Permalink Reply by Samuel Murray Matheson on January 28, 2010 at 11:52pm

Thanks Elizabeth,

It's a small world at times. I will have to check out Helens post.

I don't have either document that you mention and would love a copy of whatever you have related to Alexander of Coirag.

Thanks,

Sam

Permalink Reply by Helen Scarth on January 28, 2010 at 11:05am

Hi Sam,

I'm a descendant of Alexander and Ann Matheson's daughter Ann (1 July 1799-14 Oct 1865) who married George Munro. Their daughter, Frances Simpson Munro (wonder where the Simpson came from?) was my great grandmother. Look forward to exchanging info. You can contact me at circeattreadlesdotca.

Helen

Permalink Reply by Edith Matheson on January 28, 2010 at 12:48pm

Hi,
Elizabeth can tell you the Red River Settlement history better than I, and where the Simpson name could have come from if Frances was born after they arrived over here. If she was born in Scotland, then I wouldn't know.

Permalink Reply by Samuel Murray Matheson on January 28, 2010 at 11:55pm

Helen,

Good to hear from you and I look forward to exchanging info as well.

Cheers,

Sam

Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Campbell on January 30, 2010 at 10:02am

I mentioned the Frances Simpson name on the other discussion you started, Helen. It's a unit, I am pretty sure. Lady Frances Simpson was the wife of George Simpson, governor of the Hudson's Bay Company, who made his residence at Lower Fort Garry (near Selkirk, MB). She made quite an impression on many! I'm going to see if I can a video - Yes!! I did it! http://www.genealogywise.com/video/lady-frances-simpson. Check also the Dictionary of Canadian Biography entry for her at http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?BioId=38309.

Permalink Reply by Edith Matheson on January 28, 2010 at 12:44pm

Hi,
The archivist for The Lord Selkirk Association of Rupert's Land, Chloe, found the passenger list for the 1823 party when Alexander of Coirag and his second wife, and the rest of their children besides John, arrived. The question is, who was the second wife? And for that matter, who was his first wife? Both were Mathesons, according to the birth records of their children. The Selkirk Settlers book says his second wife was possibly the sister of my ancestor Alexander, but it also says she was known as the Widow Sutherland, having been married to and widowed by Robert Sutherland [the book says John, but it was actually Robert] in Scotland (she was the mother of John Sutherland, b. 1808). But Alexander's wife and the Widow Sutherland were two different women, according to the passenger list. Letters Chloe also found indicate that Mrs. Sutherland was Alexander's "sister" - not likely, if she was really MY ancestor Alexander's sister, but in those days they probably used the word sister to mean sister-in-law. So, she could have been the sister of either of Alexander's wives, maybe even both of them if his second wife was his first wife's sister. My ancestor Alexander's mother was old enough to have had one or two older daughters we did not know about before. Or maybe she really was the other Alexander's sister and we have been wrong all this time in thinking she was related to us. We may never know the answer to those questions. They are just interesting to ask. Another interesting point is that 18-year-old John accompanied the Widow Matheson in 1815. Which indicates that he could possibly have been her grandson or step-grandson. We are lucky to have the Kildonan, Sutherlandshire birth records (I also, have copies of most of the pages which have any Mathesons on them), but it gets too confusing when so many people had the same surname. And there were two couples named Alexander Matheson and Ann Matheson - fortunately they did not live in the same township.
Anyway, John Matheson's descendants are related to me because he married Ann/Nancy Polson, daughter of my ancestor Alexander's sister Katherine and Alexander Polson. I found out quite a lot about John's brother James, who moved to Jo Daviess County, Illinois, about 1835 and raised his family there. I've been studying the Red River Settlers who moved to the U.S. mostly in four parties between 1835 and 1840, when the only Mathesons to make the move, my great grandparents Angus and Isabella (Livingston) came. I don't know much about Ann and George Munro's family.

Permalink Reply by Samuel Murray Matheson on January 29, 2010 at 12:03am

Thanks Edith,

Very interesting stuff and seems like quite a mystery pre-1815. It's one of the reasons why I got involved in DNA based geneology with Clan Matheson in the hopes of clarifying some of this. You can read more about this at clan matheson's website or familytreedna's website at:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Matheson/default.aspx

Cheers,

Sam

Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Campbell on January 30, 2010 at 10:41am

This mystery concerning Jean is what I was alluding to in my comment above. It's all so CONFUSING! lol

The Parish records (OPR) for Kildonan Sutherland only date from 1790, so much of the relationship determining value applies to what we already know. I doubt that the DNA testing will solve these mysteries. But it might help us eliminate some relationships. For example, we now know that Y-DNA tests indicate that Alexander of Coirag and Hugh of Caen were not related. But that is based on two samples, so there is plenty of room for error. We need more Matheson male line descendants to do the testing to verify and expand our current knowledge.

There are other sources that may help us, too. Again, though, like the OPR for Kildonan, Sutherland, we need to do an awful lot of mining before we find the twinkle of gold. If we ever do!

Permalink Reply by Edith Matheson on January 30, 2010 at 2:35pm

That's good to know, that Alex of Coirag and Hugh of Caen were probably not related. I am descended from Hugh. My great-great grandmother was also an Ann Matheson (wife of Hugh's son Alexander), and again, we do not know who she might have been related to.

Permalink Reply by William J Matheson on February 8, 2010 at 9:48am

Sam Matheson is my nephew. I have a copy of an old indenture signed by Alex of Corraig in Oct 1823. Also signed by George Simpson. Alex references his son, James, in this document with respect to exchanging (adjoining) half lots. This thread (Edith's remarks) reveals where James went and when. I also have a handwritten family tree found in the bible of Rev Alex Matheson, son of John "Pagee" Matheson. It states Alex's wife was Jean Gordon. The inference is that John "Pagee''s mother was Jean Gordon. However, OPR records say the mother of John was Ann. Somewhat confusing. Interestly, it (the family tree) also says Alex and Jean were born in Rossshire. Perhaps the DNA project might shed some light on this.

Permalink Reply by Edith Matheson on February 8, 2010 at 12:53pm

The passenger list calls Alex's wife Jane [as I recall] Manson - and I've been saying any name that starts with MA and ends with N could be someone's interpretation of Matheson. It undoubtedly is the right family, because the given names fit. But passenger lists have been known to be wrong. The clerk who wrote it did not know the people, probably, so could easily have slipped up. What confuses me about the name Jean Gordon is the birth records for her children which call her Jean or Janet Matheson. I hesitate to suggest it, but the Rev. Alex could have been misinformed about his father's step-mother. The name Gordon may be among the ancestors of another, perhaps unrelated, Matheson family from the settlement (the wife of Angus, my great-great-grandfather's brother) - but I am not even certain of that - that could perhaps have contributed to their confusion.
I understand, of course, that you are descended from Alex's first wife. But this history is interesting. It's too bad that we will probably never find records from long enough ago to answer the questions. Keep sharing your info. Even though these are not my relatives, I am enjoying the stories.

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