The Genealogy & Family History Social Network
Researching Slave Ancestry
A forum to discuss the nuances specific to researching Slave Ancestry in the Americas. Share experiences, questions, tips and resource information as it relates to making our efforts researching African Ancestry more successful.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bill Drayton on
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You can view the Drayton and Grimke-Drayton family trees on my website - www.grimke.co.uk - which by the way has the title: From Slavery To Reconciliation. Luckie Daniels, you must have a connection to the Drayton family in some way, because the name of my ggg grandmother, Sarah DANIELS Drayton.
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I know that slave schedules only list slaves by age and gender - no name! However, often in family wills names are mentioned. You will all be interested to know that hopefully sooner rather than later family papers currently with us in the UK which pertain very much to Charleston and include wills will be on their way across the Atlantic into safe hands in Charleston so that researchers can study them in situ. I would not be surprised if you find additional information in them.
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Permalink Reply by Donna Atkinson on
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Caution. SOME census takers did put in names. I had one researcher who found her entire family by first name on the Agricultural Census of Missouri. Talk about excited. She was headed to a family reunion the following week.
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Permalink Reply by Luckie Daniels on
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Hi Bill! I immediately went to your From Slavery To Reconciliation site last night & even had friends on Twitter (www.Twitter.com/OurGeorgiaRoots) "Re-Tweeting" your URL to their followers! I took the liberty of adding you to OGRs Slave Ancestry Research Links too!:-)
It's an impressive body of work & speaks clearly to your mission of moving towards healing & for the willingness - I thank you.
I myself have been the beneficiary of living descendant contributions on my Washington-Wilkes, WINGFIELD line. In truth without the assistance of Wilsie Carr WINGFIELD, the Great Granddaughter of Archibald WINGFIELD {who owned many Family members}, my efforts would not have advanced so quickly.
I hope to one day soon, compile our slave owning/slave descendant WINGFIELD historical data - fingers crossed. Wilsie has been researching 40+ yrs & is now very ill. I would hate for the information she's recorded to ever be lost.
On the other hand, I am thrilled to know that invaluable DRAYTON slave data will find its place in LowCountry Charleston & be on hand to assist the living descendants from the region with putting their family puzzle in place. Splendid!
Thanks to the input I've received from you & Cindy, I believe we need a forum discussion where people can post to alert African-American researchers where historical family slave information can be located.
Thank you for the inspiration.
Luckie.
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Luckie, any chance we could talk on the phone. It might be easier if I called you. We're 5 hours ahead of you. Any chance today. I don't whether you've seen my latest messages rtha I've left, including a possible link between us.You'l find my cellphone number on the website.
Luckie Daniels said:Hi Bill! I immediately went to your From Slavery To Reconciliation site last night & even had friends on Twitter (www.Twitter.com/OurGeorgiaRoots) "Re-Tweeting" your URL to their followers! I took the liberty of adding you to OGRs Slave Ancestry Research Links too!:-)
It's an impressive body of work & speaks clearly to your mission of moving towards healing & for the willingness - I thank you.
I myself have been the beneficiary of living descendant contributions on my Washington-Wilkes, WINGFIELD line. In truth without the assistance of Wilsie Carr WINGFIELD, the Great Granddaughter of Archibald WINGFIELD {who owned many Family members}, my efforts would not have advanced so quickly.
I hope to one day soon, compile our slave owning/slave descendant WINGFIELD historical data - fingers crossed. Wilsie has been researching 40+ yrs & is now very ill. I would hate for the information she's recorded to ever be lost.
On the other hand, I am thrilled to know that invaluable DRAYTON slave data will find its place in LowCountry Charleston & be on hand to assist the living descendants from the region with putting their family puzzle in place. Splendid!
Thanks to the input I've received from you & Cindy, I believe we need a forum discussion where people can post to alert African-American researchers where historical family slave information can be located.
Thank you for the inspiration.
Luckie.
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I did see your DANIELS notation & will tell you it instantly peaked my interest! I have done very little research on my Father's side & if I had not deleted my database 2 weeks ago, you'd be able to see how I came to find the DANIELS-COBB family bible via a 5 year old Ancestry post!
It would be great to connect - I'll shoot you an email with my mobile.
Luckie.
Bill Drayton said:Luckie, any chance we could talk on the phone. It might be easier if I called you. We're 5 hours ahead of you. Any chance today. I don't whether you've seen my latest messages rtha I've left, including a possible link between us.You'l find my cellphone number on the website.
Luckie Daniels said:Hi Bill! I immediately went to your From Slavery To Reconciliation site last night & even had friends on Twitter (www.Twitter.com/OurGeorgiaRoots) "Re-Tweeting" your URL to their followers! I took the liberty of adding you to OGRs Slave Ancestry Research Links too!:-)
It's an impressive body of work & speaks clearly to your mission of moving towards healing & for the willingness - I thank you.
I myself have been the beneficiary of living descendant contributions on my Washington-Wilkes, WINGFIELD line. In truth without the assistance of Wilsie Carr WINGFIELD, the Great Granddaughter of Archibald WINGFIELD {who owned many Family members}, my efforts would not have advanced so quickly.
I hope to one day soon, compile our slave owning/slave descendant WINGFIELD historical data - fingers crossed. Wilsie has been researching 40+ yrs & is now very ill. I would hate for the information she's recorded to ever be lost.
On the other hand, I am thrilled to know that invaluable DRAYTON slave data will find its place in LowCountry Charleston & be on hand to assist the living descendants from the region with putting their family puzzle in place. Splendid!
Thanks to the input I've received from you & Cindy, I believe we need a forum discussion where people can post to alert African-American researchers where historical family slave information can be located.
Thank you for the inspiration.
Luckie.
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Permalink Reply by Fran Ellsworth on
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No!, If you have your preceding grandmother and great grandmother's names, I bet we can find her especially with all the new information coming out from the civil war records and freeman's records. There is a wealth of knowledge out here to help you, a best friend of mine found his gr gr grandfather. If you need help just let us know.
Frances
CHASTITY said:I just wanted to say after reading the forum and topic for his discussion group the thing that bothers me still to this day: ok, my grandmother told me stories of my great grandmother and they were fine stories....But when I would ask about my grea-great grandmother she could only tell me she was too young to remember much but the young woman never had a name , or my granny just didn't remember for her being a child herself, but the lady's name was simply Mamie. Why? My granny said all she knew was that Mamie was a slave. I guess I will probably never find info on her, huh? Anyhow that's what's bugging me!
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Thank you Frances!:-)
Luckie.
Frances Ellsworth said:No!, If you have your preceding grandmother and great grandmother's names, I bet we can find her especially with all the new information coming out from the civil war records and freeman's records. There is a wealth of knowledge out here to help you, a best friend of mine found his gr gr grandfather. If you need help just let us know.
Frances
CHASTITY said:I just wanted to say after reading the forum and topic for his discussion group the thing that bothers me still to this day: ok, my grandmother told me stories of my great grandmother and they were fine stories....But when I would ask about my grea-great grandmother she could only tell me she was too young to remember much but the young woman never had a name , or my granny just didn't remember for her being a child herself, but the lady's name was simply Mamie. Why? My granny said all she knew was that Mamie was a slave. I guess I will probably never find info on her, huh? Anyhow that's what's bugging me!
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Permalink Reply by Renate Sanders on
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Hi again, everyone.
I just want to comment (with eyebrows firmly in place) about Cindy's post. First of all, thanks, Cindy for being so forthcoming. I'm sure that we all, as genealogists, were carefuliy examing every word of your post, and many of us were able to make connections with what you were saying.
Luckie, you are indeed lucky that some of the descendents of your ancestors' owners have been open and willing to share information with you. That hasn't quite been the case for me, which has been disappointing because I've actually met with and been in contact with descendents of my slave ancestors' owners, who have been very kind and friendly towards me, but, for whatever the reason have not (yet) been willing to allow me to see their family's papers - which are in their possession. I don't even think they are trying to be mean or hurtful, but I just don't think they realize the level of importance that this will have for my research, despite my gentle pleas. I have several "brick wall" questions that remain unanswered and theories that remain unproven, all of which could possibly resolved by researching these family papers! I haven't wanted to press too hard because I don't want to push them away. For me - and perhaps this is a common feeling - I'm being particularly careful because I don't want them to think that I want anything, or that I'm trying to lay claim to anything. I feel like that might be a concern, especially since my history lies in a tiny little town in NC (Louisburg).
Can anyone relate to this issue, and can you offer an y suggestions as to how I might be able to get this family to give me acecess to their papgers, or to at least get them to search them for me?
Luckie Daniels said:Thank you for sharing Cindy & no raised eyebrows from me!:-)
What you've described experiencing is common for most African-Americans - be we Genealogists or not. Bigotry is appalling yes, but not uncommon.
What I have appreciated over the years is that for the most part, there is a sense of etiquette when it comes to approaching research in general and I have found it extended to me in my pursuit of discovering my Slave Ancestry.
Yes - there have been times when my requests/emails have been ignored but the outreach I've received has tripled the amount of snubs.
Even now, descendants of Rev. James Madison DICKEY, the Minister who owned my 4th Grandmother Catie WINGFIELD DORSEY live & have knowledge of my Grandmother in respect to her time with the Minister. The problem? They've been less than forthcoming about sharing it with me.
What I would hope is that people, particularly Genealogists, would understand just how hurtful not being able to identify your immediate family is - through no fault of your own no less.
It's the not knowing that gets you.
I believe open dialogues, like the one occurring here, are the ONLY way to heal & move through a very ugly period in US history.
Thank you for joining us.
Luckie.
Cindy Johnston Sorley said:I am excited about this topic and I hope I do not raise alot of eyebrows with this posting but I may.
I grew up in basically all white Utah. I was born into the LDS church and left it a number of years ago. As a child I had ONE black student in our school. He had moved to the military base. I was in NINTH grade at the time. I am not exaggerating. Well, my mom remarried and we moved to Zaragoza, Spain when I was 14 and my brother was 10. We enrolled in the military high school and we became fast friends with many of the black, Asian and European students of military parents. These friends were always welcome in our home and I had four great years of never knowing racism. Back up a bit. I had never experienced racism because I had never had contact with a black person in Utah until ninth grade and I was becoming friends with Darin when we moved to Spain. Following high school graduation, I took six months and toured Europe and such and then eventually settled on going to Nursing School at an Mississippi University For Women in Columbus. My first month at this college was pure hell as I tried to meet friends. I was an outsider, a Yankee and was not accepted. I ended up moving in with two students from Mexico and Honduras. We became fast friends with our new neighbors, two black girls from Georgia and Alabama. Within a few days, our tires were slashed, I was threatened by white girls in elevators to not hang out with blacks and was really treated poorly. My roommates received the same or worse treatment. I was livid and made a point to let them know I had experienced prejudice for the first time in my life and it was 1980.
I ended up graduating from college and since my parents could not be there for my graduation, my dear friend had her grandmother who was a midwife in Lamar county Alabama pin me for my degree. Mary was black and she had become a second mother to me in my years at MUW and Itawamba Jr College.
After graduation she knew I had a love for genealogy and asked me if I could help her look for records on her family.... I was thrilled to do it.. the problem... they were so few and far between I felt like a failure to her. I was appalled what was available in 1980 and am as appalled today in 2009 what is available. As I did the research later on my boys line of slave owners in Georgia, I have to admit, I didn't care that they owned slaves. It was not important to me. I guess it bothered me and I didn't want to put it in my genealogy. I did research for a paid job and finding the slave records made me mad, like they were hidden and I had to dig for them..
I got excited this past year while doing genealogy for a dear friend, I ran across the term Melungeon when researching his family. Melungeons are tri racial (Sub Saharan, Caucasian and some say European or even Native American) isolates of the hills of Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and parts of West Virginia. After studying them and devouring any information I could on the Melungeons I realized that many of the reasons they are living the hills is because of the treatment they received when on census records they were listed as Black, Colored, Mulatto and sometimes White. Many were not allowed to vote and were treated as though they had leprosy. So how do you tell someone that is Caucasian that they have black in them? I just blurted it out. I said.. you know your Estep line has a Melungeon in them? He said What? I said Tri racial isolates! Black, White, Indian and Portuguese or Spanish or something? He never even flinched.. he said.. so Melungeon huh? Let's look it up. I gave him all the information I had. Now we have found it is on a number of his lines.
A very interesting turn to this story. A number of years ago we came across my boys great great grandfathers written story about growing up in the South and his family having slaves. He said he remembered his grand father father being upset with the census takers when they would not take the names of the slaves for the census. He also mentioned his son tried to find info on what happened to the "friends" and checking census records he could not find a thing about any member of this group and he said he was convinced they were never added to the census for 1870, 1880 and knew they were alive. I am finding the same to be said for tracing Melungeon lines as with the black lines I have researched.. it is almost like the census record takers didn't feel they were important and left many of them off.
Memoirs are very important of slave owners in the South. I found a great deal written about a family that named every slave and I was later able to find them on the census. I would have no clue where to look had I not found that memoir. If you know the slave owners name, look for written papers: Memoirs, Wills, etc. My boy's gggrandfather left items to his former slaves when he died and all their names were in the will. I realized these people were members of this family and I then made a tree for for them and did some work on them and when I have time, I will do more..my mind was changed about the research when I saw their names in written word being left items in a will... they were important to someone and they are now important to me.
sorry I rambled...
so look at WILLS... very important.. the last three I have researched had gifts to former slaves or slaves.
off to wonder around..
Cindy
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Hi Renate!
Make no mistake, I am in your EXACT shoes when it comes to my relationship with the DICKEYS whose Ancestor owned my 4th Grandmother Catie. My approach, has mirrored yours.
Although no one has ever confirmed this, I do believe the fear of slave descendants returning to claim some aspect of their birthright is a concern for living descendants.
I also believe that the ugliness of the Chattel system combined with the fact that sharing information with us may also expose their respective family secrets, doesn't help matters.
Ultimately, we have to hope for understanding our plight as researchers inheriting this lineage. And I do believe it must start with open dialogue.
Which I had a better answer, sweetie - for both of us.
Luckie.
P.S. I responded to your "About Luckie" comments at OurGeorgiaRoots! Thanks for visiting & let me know how I can help!:-)
Renate Sanders said:Hi again, everyone.
I just want to comment (with eyebrows firmly in place) about Cindy's post. First of all, thanks, Cindy for being so forthcoming. I'm sure that we all, as genealogists, were carefuliy examing every word of your post, and many of us were able to make connections with what you were saying.
Luckie, you are indeed lucky that some of the descendents of your ancestors' owners have been open and willing to share information with you. That hasn't quite been the case for me, which has been disappointing because I've actually met with and been in contact with descendents of my slave ancestors' owners, who have been very kind and friendly towards me, but, for whatever the reason have not (yet) been willing to allow me to see their family's papers - which are in their possession. I don't even think they are trying to be mean or hurtful, but I just don't think they realize the level of importance that this will have for my research, despite my gentle pleas. I have several "brick wall" questions that remain unanswered and theories that remain unproven, all of which could possibly resolved by researching these family papers! I haven't wanted to press too hard because I don't want to push them away. For me - and perhaps this is a common feeling - I'm being particularly careful because I don't want them to think that I want anything, or that I'm trying to lay claim to anything. I feel like that might be a concern, especially since my history lies in a tiny little town in NC (Louisburg).
Can anyone relate to this issue, and can you offer an y suggestions as to how I might be able to get this family to give me acecess to their papgers, or to at least get them to search them for me?
Luckie Daniels said:Thank you for sharing Cindy & no raised eyebrows from me!:-)
What you've described experiencing is common for most African-Americans - be we Genealogists or not. Bigotry is appalling yes, but not uncommon.
What I have appreciated over the years is that for the most part, there is a sense of etiquette when it comes to approaching research in general and I have found it extended to me in my pursuit of discovering my Slave Ancestry.
Yes - there have been times when my requests/emails have been ignored but the outreach I've received has tripled the amount of snubs.
Even now, descendants of Rev. James Madison DICKEY, the Minister who owned my 4th Grandmother Catie WINGFIELD DORSEY live & have knowledge of my Grandmother in respect to her time with the Minister. The problem? They've been less than forthcoming about sharing it with me.
What I would hope is that people, particularly Genealogists, would understand just how hurtful not being able to identify your immediate family is - through no fault of your own no less.
It's the not knowing that gets you.
I believe open dialogues, like the one occurring here, are the ONLY way to heal & move through a very ugly period in US history.
Thank you for joining us.
Luckie.
Cindy Johnston Sorley said:I am excited about this topic and I hope I do not raise alot of eyebrows with this posting but I may.
I grew up in basically all white Utah. I was born into the LDS church and left it a number of years ago. As a child I had ONE black student in our school. He had moved to the military base. I was in NINTH grade at the time. I am not exaggerating. Well, my mom remarried and we moved to Zaragoza, Spain when I was 14 and my brother was 10. We enrolled in the military high school and we became fast friends with many of the black, Asian and European students of military parents. These friends were always welcome in our home and I had four great years of never knowing racism. Back up a bit. I had never experienced racism because I had never had contact with a black person in Utah until ninth grade and I was becoming friends with Darin when we moved to Spain. Following high school graduation, I took six months and toured Europe and such and then eventually settled on going to Nursing School at an Mississippi University For Women in Columbus. My first month at this college was pure hell as I tried to meet friends. I was an outsider, a Yankee and was not accepted. I ended up moving in with two students from Mexico and Honduras. We became fast friends with our new neighbors, two black girls from Georgia and Alabama. Within a few days, our tires were slashed, I was threatened by white girls in elevators to not hang out with blacks and was really treated poorly. My roommates received the same or worse treatment. I was livid and made a point to let them know I had experienced prejudice for the first time in my life and it was 1980.
I ended up graduating from college and since my parents could not be there for my graduation, my dear friend had her grandmother who was a midwife in Lamar county Alabama pin me for my degree. Mary was black and she had become a second mother to me in my years at MUW and Itawamba Jr College.
After graduation she knew I had a love for genealogy and asked me if I could help her look for records on her family.... I was thrilled to do it.. the problem... they were so few and far between I felt like a failure to her. I was appalled what was available in 1980 and am as appalled today in 2009 what is available. As I did the research later on my boys line of slave owners in Georgia, I have to admit, I didn't care that they owned slaves. It was not important to me. I guess it bothered me and I didn't want to put it in my genealogy. I did research for a paid job and finding the slave records made me mad, like they were hidden and I had to dig for them..
I got excited this past year while doing genealogy for a dear friend, I ran across the term Melungeon when researching his family. Melungeons are tri racial (Sub Saharan, Caucasian and some say European or even Native American) isolates of the hills of Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and parts of West Virginia. After studying them and devouring any information I could on the Melungeons I realized that many of the reasons they are living the hills is because of the treatment they received when on census records they were listed as Black, Colored, Mulatto and sometimes White. Many were not allowed to vote and were treated as though they had leprosy. So how do you tell someone that is Caucasian that they have black in them? I just blurted it out. I said.. you know your Estep line has a Melungeon in them? He said What? I said Tri racial isolates! Black, White, Indian and Portuguese or Spanish or something? He never even flinched.. he said.. so Melungeon huh? Let's look it up. I gave him all the information I had. Now we have found it is on a number of his lines.
A very interesting turn to this story. A number of years ago we came across my boys great great grandfathers written story about growing up in the South and his family having slaves. He said he remembered his grand father father being upset with the census takers when they would not take the names of the slaves for the census. He also mentioned his son tried to find info on what happened to the "friends" and checking census records he could not find a thing about any member of this group and he said he was convinced they were never added to the census for 1870, 1880 and knew they were alive. I am finding the same to be said for tracing Melungeon lines as with the black lines I have researched.. it is almost like the census record takers didn't feel they were important and left many of them off.
Memoirs are very important of slave owners in the South. I found a great deal written about a family that named every slave and I was later able to find them on the census. I would have no clue where to look had I not found that memoir. If you know the slave owners name, look for written papers: Memoirs, Wills, etc. My boy's gggrandfather left items to his former slaves when he died and all their names were in the will. I realized these people were members of this family and I then made a tree for for them and did some work on them and when I have time, I will do more..my mind was changed about the research when I saw their names in written word being left items in a will... they were important to someone and they are now important to me.
sorry I rambled...
so look at WILLS... very important.. the last three I have researched had gifts to former slaves or slaves.
off to wonder around..
Cindy
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Permalink Reply by Angela Walton-Raji on
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Hello Luckie,
You are quite right about the fears that many who descend from slave owners have. I did have the opportunity to meet with a descendant of a slave owner in Arkansas a few years ago, at the site where my ancestors lived. We had a polite meeting and I shared with her and with the curator of the home (now owned by the University of Arkansas, Ft. Smith) the document that mentioned my ancestor and the name of the slave owner.
The woman was pleasant and friendly, but later admitted to another researcher, that she was nervous and afraid that I would be demanding "reparations" of some sort. I guess that is a real fear, but once she realized that I was only interested in history, her fears vanished. Several weeks later, I got a document from them showing my ancestor's name on the estate.
The fact is that it is perhaps feared that there is some "hidden agenda" that we might have, when all we really want is the names of our people and any facts that can be found about them--we want the history, not the estate, nor the family jewels. Thankfully, as more stories of successful meetings take place this is becoming easier.
About 2 months after our meeting, I phoned my research buddy, and she answered her cell phone. She whispered into the phone and said, “I am in a lecture and looking at your picture on the screen. “ Quite surprised, I said “What?”
She said that the curator of the historic home was giving a presentation and talked about how the descendant of the estate owner met one of the descendants of one of the slaves who lived there, and how it was such a meaningful and wonderful meeting.
So these meetings are becoming easier as time goes on.
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Angela, this is both amazing & encouraging - to all of us who have been faced with this issue.
I do plan to outreach Rev. Dickey's descendants once again & maybe it's time to just speak to the "elephant in the room" vs. hoping after all these years, they will see & know my intentions?
Part of the challenge is that James Madison's Son, James Edward DICKEY went on to become the 14th President of Emory University & this makes the family even more "cautious" with issues [potentially] affecting their Pedigree.
Regardless of the sensitivities, I have to press on. I just cannot live knowing there exists a source of information about my Catie that I don't pursue to the very end.
Thank you for the ray of hope.
Luckie.
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